Rich Get Poorer, Poor Disappear

Ever on the lookout for the bright side of hard times, I am tempted to delete “class inequality” from my worry list. Less than a year ago, it was the one of the biggest economic threats on the horizon, with even hard line conservative pundits grousing that wealth was flowing uphill at an alarming rate, leaving the middle class stuck with stagnating incomes while the new super-rich ascended to the heavens in their personal jets. Then the whole top-heavy structure of American capitalism began to totter, and –poof!—inequality all but vanished from the public discourse. A financial columnist in the Chicago Sun Times has just announced that the recession is a “great leveler,” serving to “democratize[d] the agony,” as we all tumble into “the Nouveau Poor…”

The media have been pelting us with heart-wrenching stories about the neo-suffering of the Nouveau Poor, or at least the Formerly Super-rich among them: Foreclosures in Greenwich CT! A collapsing market for cosmetic surgery! Sales of Gulfstream jets declining! Niemen Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue on the ropes! We read of desperate measures, like having to cut back the personal trainer to two hours a week. Parties have been canceled; dinner guests have been offered, gasp, baked potatoes and chili. The New York Times relates the story of a New Jersey teenager whose parents were forced to cut her $100 a week allowance and private Pilates classes. In one of the most pathetic tales of all, New Yorker Alexandra Penney relates how she lost her life savings to Bernie Madoff and is now faced with having to lay off her three-day- a-week maid, Yolanda. “I wear a classic clean white shirt every day of the week. I have about 40 white shirts. They make me feel fresh and ready to face whatever battles I may be fighting …” she wrote, but without Yolanda, “How am I going to iron those shirts so I can still feel like a poor civilized person?”

But hard times are no more likely to abolish class inequality than Obama’s inauguration is likely to eradicate racism. No one actually knows yet whether inequality has increased or decreased during the last year of recession, but the historical precedents are not promising. The economists I’ve talked to-- like Biden’s top economic advisor, Jared Bernstein—insist that recessions are particularly unkind to the poor and the middle class. Canadian economist Armine Yalnizyan says, “Income polarization always gets worse during recessions.” It makes sense. If the stock market has shrunk your assets of $500 million to a mere $250 million, you may have to pass on a third or fourth vacation home. But if you’ve just lost an $8 an hour job, you’re looking at no home at all.

Alright, I’m a journalist and I understand how the media work. When a millionaire cuts back on his crème fraiche and caviar consumption, you have a touching human interest story. But pitch a story about a laid-off roofer who loses his trailer home and you’re likely to get a big editorial yawn. “Poor Get Poorer” is just not an eye-grabbing headline, even when the evidence is overwhelming. Food stamp applications, for example, are rising toward a historic record; calls to one DC-area hunger hotline have jumped 248 percent in the last six months, most of them from people who have never needed food aid before. And for the first time since 1996, there’s been a marked upswing in the number of people seeking cash assistance from TANF (Temporary Aid to Needy Families), the exsanguinated version of welfare left by welfare “reform.” Too bad for them that TANF is essentially a wage-supplement program based on the assumption that the poor would always be able to find jobs, and that it pays, at most, less than half the federal poverty level.

Why do the sufferings of the poor and the downwardly- mobile class matter more than the tiny deprivations of the rich? Leaving aside all the soft-hearted socialist, Christian-type, arguments, it’s because poverty and the squeeze on the middle class are a big part of what got us into this mess in the first place. Only one thing kept the sub-rich spending in the 00’s, and hence kept the economy going, and that was debt: credit card debt, home equity loans, car loans, college loans and of course the now famously “toxic” subprime mortgages, which were bundled and sliced into “securities” and marketed to the rich as high-interest investments throughout the world. The gross inequality of American society wasn’t just unfair or aesthetically displeasing; it created a perilously unstable situation.

Which is why any serious government attempt to get the economy going again – and I leave aside the unserious attempts like bank bailouts and other corporate welfare projects—has to start at the bottom. Obama is promising to generate three million new jobs in “shovel ready” projects, and let’s hope they’re not all jobs for young men with strong backs. Until those jobs kick in, and in case they leave out the elderly, the single moms and the downsized desk-workers, we’re going to need an economic policy centered on the poor: more money for food stamps, for Medicaid, unemployment insurance, and, yes, cash assistance along the lines of what welfare once was, so that when people come tumbling down they don’t end up six feet under. For those who think “welfare” sounds too radical, we could just call it a “right to life” program, only one in which the objects of concern have already been born.

If that sounds politically unfeasible, consider this: When Clinton was cutting welfare and food stamps in the 90s, the poor were still an easily marginalized group, subjected to the nastiest sorts of racial and gender stereotyping. They were lazy, promiscuous, addicted, deadbeats, as whole choruses of conservative experts announced. Thanks to the recession, however – and I knew there had to be a bright side – the ranks of the poor are swelling every day with failed business owners, office workers, salespeople, and long-time homeowners. Stereotype that! As the poor and the formerly middle class Nouveau Poor become the American majority, they will finally have the clout to get their needs met.

Comments

[Jimi]

Lovely sentiments, all. Too bad it's not how America works. History shows that America is essentially a machine for moving wealth upwards. Our government has almost NO idea how to help the people at the bottom. They don't exist. Consider how often you hear people talk about the lower class in political debates. You NEVEr hear about them. You hear about the middle class a lot but never the poor. For one thing, people don't want to believe that they are poor, even when they are. For another, it's just assumed that there will always be poverty and it can't really be eliminated. (Sorta like how we assume that every year we'll catch a cold or the flu - just something we have to deal with.) Talking about poverty and - heaven forbid - actually DOING something SYSTEMIC about poverty (not just the occasional ABC special wherein a house gets built for a hard-luck family) just doesn't figure into the American character. Frankly I blame Americans and not the government or the media. We're living in the country that many of us wanted - a neoliberal wasteland of no-rules wealth accumulation of the very few on the backs of the very many. It's not going to get better under Obama - not substantially - because this situation wasn't caused by legislative errors or oversight. It was caused by the very character and belief systems of the American people.

[Larry In Lethbridge]

I have mixed feelings over this dire US economic situation.

Financial hardship is tough on all aspects of society but in many corners of the world you have throngs of people cheering and reveling in the troubles some of these "well to do" people are experiencing.

I think most of this shitstorm people find themselves in brought on by them and that they have nobody to blame except themselves. As Jimi said above, time to look the belief systems and charactor
of the American people, because you let happen to yourselves.

[guy]

in my neck of the woods on long island people still live pretty good. the average wage is 50k a year.
no one is riding a bike everyone has a car even the high school kids. when i was in high school in the 70's kids had old jalopies at best, but today the kids have nice shiney new cars.
nothing changes but the weather here on long island

[Creighton]

I'll tell you where the poor are disappearing to!!!

Wait a minute, who is this kid who's barging in here thinking he can "represent the voice of the poor" via his 20 inch imac computer while secretly downloading Britney Spear's newest album on itunes in the window right behind Barbara's blog page you ask?

It is the voice of the poor indeed!

Here's why I qualify:
As a recent college graduate with a degree in Sociology, I too found myself a fool of the illusion that "once I graduate everything will be all be up hill from there."

After 6 months of extensive job searching, Nothing. Not one job even worth considering.

That being said, I have exhausted what little savings and resources I had, and even dipped into some credit card debt, in an attempt to pay rent and be able to feed myself with whatever goodies I can discover from the 99 cent store to make my dinner with. (By the way, refried beans and those expired hotdogs make a tasty feast for anyone else in my boat looking for ideas.) Therefore joining the army of the "ultra invisible poor" along with the rest of my classmates from the class of 2008 who were once considered "privileged" for even being able get an education. Instead we have been stripped from whatever hope we had and handed a big fat bill demanding we start paying back our college loans, but I say go ahead and repossess my insight, it was useless anyway.

Anyway, my point is, that I spend most of my days isolated in my tiny room located in one of the many the ghettos of LA, living vicariously through the characters on the reality TV show "The real housewives of Orange County," who wake up in the morning and randomly decided to buy million dollar boats and go on lavish shopping sprees.

It seems to be the only thing distracting me from marching into the kitchen and slitting my wrists with a plastic knife since I can't even afford real silverware.

Why don't you go out and get a minimum wage job at least you say?
I'm sure someone who is college educated can at least score one of those right?

I'm sure they can as well. But have you read "Nickle and Dimed?!" Ew, I'm glad Barbara did all the dirty work for us, letting us know that it's nearly impossible survive off minimum wage.
If I'm going to be forced to deteriorate my body at a young age, I'd rather do it rotting in the comfort of my own home. Therefore why bother wasting your energy cleaning houses, or surrendering your basic human rights for $8. I'd rather die urinating in my own privacy with dignity and my basic human rights than to submit to having some stranger watch you pee in a cup then shortly after, check your pockets on the way out of the bathroom to make sure you didn't steal any paper towels or toilet paper.

I think i'll just go admit to committing some bogus crime that I didn't do to get arrested. I mean at least in jail they feed you three meals a day, provide you with a hot shower, give you a place to sleep, and I hear those fellas behind the bars and getting laid more frequently than us poor folk out here who prefer to use condoms as socks instead cause why use something for a few minutes and throw it away when you can have a nice pair of waterproof socks for them rainy days!

But first, I'm listing my copy of "Nickel and Dimed" on eBay to get some money for food. (Sorry Barbara, I promise one day when the economy gets better, I'll buy myself a new copy) Not sure if it will be in this life time or not, heck if I care, optimism is what landed me here in the first place.

p.s my ebay seller name is The_Slurpee_kid
If anyone on the other side of the spectrum feels like supporting a hopeless college grad to buy some mac N cheese, please feel free to bid. And be on the lookout for my auction for Bait N Switch, which I will be listing as soon as I get a hold of my thieving sister who "borrowed" it and failed to return it.

Cheers!
Creighton - [email protected]

[Tom]

We're on our way out as a civilization, not just our country. In the coming years, the erratic climate and our continuing pollution and overfishing of the oceans will combine to make food scarce and then the thin veneer of civilization will become unravelled and human life will once again become brutal, nasty and short. All this financial trouble is just the beginning. Wait til the hyperinflation (like in Zimbabwe) hits (and it will). There is so much to correct and so little time left to do it that i fear we're up against impossible odds. Just correcting our energy consumption will probably take too long. We also have a looming water crisis (already happening in the southeast and southwestern U.S.), just to name a few of the massive problems humanity has to deal with by about 2015 (when it won't matter any more because by then whatever we do won't be enough to mitigate the level of CO2 the earth has to deal with).

The earth will be around, but people - we'll probably be extinct by 2020 the way it looks. (i'm not sure we'll even last that long).

[roger]

“ As a recent college graduate with a degree in Sociology, I too found myself a fool of the illusion that "once I graduate everything will be all be up hill from there. "

-----How long have you had this sense of entitlement? The real work son, begins after you leave school.

“ (By the way, refried beans and those expired hotdogs make a tasty feast for anyone else in my boat looking for ideas.) Therefore joining the army of the "ultra invisible poor" along with the rest of my classmates from the class of 2008 who were once considered "privileged" for even being able get an education. “

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/documentaries/2007/12/071227_dollar_a_day_1.shtml

“ Almost half the world's population lives on less than a dollar a day, but the statistic fails to capture the humiliation, powerlessness and brutal hardship that is the daily lot of the world's poor. “

-----Yes, as a matter of fact you are privileged. Refried beans and hot dogs would be considered a feast in many parts of the world.

“ After 6 months of extensive job searching, Nothing. Not one job even worth considering. “

“ Ew, I'm glad Barbara did all the dirty work for us, letting us know that it's nearly impossible survive off minimum wage.

If I'm going to be forced to deteriorate my body at a young age, I'd rather do it rotting in the comfort of my own home. Therefore why bother wasting your energy cleaning houses, or surrendering your basic human rights for $8. “

-----“ worth considering “ is the qualifier here. I gather you are too good for factory or field work. Is the impediment that you either can’t or you won’t wait tables? Too good to get a roommate to cut costs? Are you truly prepared to tell me that undocumented folk can find and hold employment but a college graduate cannot? Or is the problem here the part about “ jobs worth considering”. You make no mention of spouse or children. You are apparently healthy and resourceful enough to attend and graduate from college. Surely you do not expect us to believe that a single, healthy, unattached male (I am going to assume that you are male given your name) cannot carve out a living.

-----Tell me about deteriorating your body. Instead of spending your time watching TV try reading the “Grapes of Wrath” and come back and tell us what deprivation means.

Deprivation: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/3558527.stm

-----Take a good hard look then have the stones to tell me you are surrendering your basic human rights and deteriorating your body at a young age.

“ I spend most of my days isolated in my tiny room located in one of the many the ghettos of LA, “

Warsaw ghetto: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_ghetto

“ The final battle started on the eve of Passover, April 19, 1943, when the large Nazi force entered the ghetto. After initial setbacks, the Germans under the field command of Jürgen Stroop systematically burned and blew up the ghetto buildings, block by block, rounding up or murdering anybody they could capture. Significant resistance ended on April 23, 1943, and the Nazi operation officially ended in mid-May, symbolically culminated with the demolition of the Great Synagogue of Warsaw on May 16, 1943. According to the official report, at least 56,065 people were killed on the spot or deported to German Nazi concentration and death camps, most to Treblinka. “

-----Try again graduate.

[Jose]

This Roger is a smart fella.

Second, this entitled twerp Creighton needs to have a big attitude adjustment.

I think he is just bitter about not finding work after school. I happen to know many graduates coming out of school that are "on the ball" and find work no problem. Maybe "Creighton" isn't all that employable ?Maybe something wrong with him you think ?

Maybe sporting a name like "Creighton" scares people off.

[buena]

We can snipe at each other until the cows come home, or we can work together to find some solutions.

Obama wants our input. Go to www.change.gov and see how you can get involved.

The U.S. middle class is in huge trouble, and as we slide into bankruptcy and foreclosure the impact on the world economy is enormous.

Everything is connected and eventually we'll sink or swim together. Our heritage of rugged individualism isn't doing us any good.

[Mohamed]

I see the US middle class having to use soup kitchens and food banks very very soon. Already the lower classes use these means to eat, but it's coming to the middle class mark my words.

Tha clown of a President you elected twice has driven a once proud and vibrant and wealthy nation to having to resort to food stamps. Not good.

[chris]

mohamed,

The US is in for some tough sledding for a while. But clowns like you and a number of others who post here believe the end is around the corner. Why?

The US is a country populated by a lot of people who believe it is possible to overcome all problems, no matter how large the problems are.

There are, of course, a number of people, like yourself, who thrive on failure, and the failure of the US seems to be a failure that would give you a lot of enjoyment.

That's a muslim sentiment. But the US would have to adopt an islamic perspective before failure becomes the guiding psychology of the nation. It won't happen.

Though I expect little from Obama, I am certain the well established Can-Do attitude of Americans will assert itself with the usual remarkable results.

On the other hand, I expect the world's idiots -- muslim leaders, for example -- to invest much of their psychic energy in dreams of a post-American world. However, while they swim in their dreams, the US will recover and once again leave the idiots to their failed hopes.

[chris]

Larry the nitwit from Lethbridge wrote:

"...time to look the belief systems and charactor
of the American people, because you let happen to yourselves."

The slump in the US auto industry adds up to a major whupping for Canada. You had better hope the US gets itself together in a hurry. If not, the consequences will inflict enormous pain on Canada, which is dependent on US prosperity.

The bankruptcy of Nortel is just the latest Canadian casualty. Nortel may survive by passing through bankruptcy. But the reorganization shrink Nortel considerably.

[chris]

Barb writes:

"As the poor and the formerly middle class Nouveau Poor become the American majority, they will finally have the clout to get their needs met."

Now I know the worst is over. Barb is an excellent contra-indicator. When she says the end of the world is nigh, in fact, the light at the end of the tunnel is about to shine.

Unfortunately, most of our current problems resulted from lending money to people with no capacity to repay it. But their unpaid debts are real.

How do we offset the losses on the debts they have refused to honor? We have to stimulate more spending. But that means we have to give more money to many of the same people who stiffed the nation once already.

Will they stand up and pay their bills this time? Or is the nation taking a foolish risk?

This time the banks will change the rules a little. The most obvious potential defaulters will have to forget buying another house soon. Or cough up a reasonable downpayment this time.

But the age of predatory borrowing will end. That will solve a lot of economic problems.

[Danny Boy]

Roger and Chris- Thanks for a good laugh. I can't believe you two uneducated morons are still posting on here. Anyway, have fun with your delusions.

[barbsright]

The American belief that we can all be winners in the 'casino economy' is over. Barb is right, people have been finally awakened to the fact they are no longer middle class---but poor. I and my fellow college educated friends have been, and are, experiencing this firsthand. Too many people have seen their 401k's shrink, so they can no longer delude themselves that all is OK. Rush Limbaugh, Thursday on his program, admitted that when he started making money he invested improperly even though his money manager was highly recommended and he followed the managers advise. In doing so Rush, unknowingly, admitted that the social safety net is necessary when it comes to Social Security, etc. Barb wins.

[Theresa McAlister]

I don't think the rich are getting that much poorer, but I do believe the poor will be obselete one day. Who then will pay the debt that the poor people have left behind? The rich will have to humble themselves into living in $100,000 homes instead of million dollar homes. How much more humble can it get? The side of town I reside on will be called the poor side of town. I will have to live on my whole life insurance, then how will my children bury me? When I was a child in the 60's, I was carefree but now I wonder if my parents worried at all about what I do today. Of course it didn't cost as much to bury them as it will us. I am half way through my life and I am scared to death of what the rest of it is going to be like, especially for my children and grand-children. Will they suffer because of the way society is and always will be. Nothing can ever change this. We can analyze and theorize all we want, because it is and always be the our forefathers way, and the only thing that has changed is the decades and the centuries. If there is anyone out there that has a solution to all this mess, I sure would like to see what he has.

[lc2]

Lmao! I popped in just to see if roger/chris were still at it. Hilarious.

Let me sum up, in case anyone here isn't familiar with roger/chris:

If you're not rich, it's because you're lazy, entitled, stupid, immature, and just a basically inferior human being. Don't like that answer? Go to Darfur, that'll make you appreciate everything you have and reinforce the fact that the rich do in fact deserve every penny they can squeeze out of you for whatever frivolous purpose their heart desires.

No need to thank me for pre-empting your comments, roger/chris ... I know you're busy trolling other blogs and I figured I'd lend a hand. Cheers!

[Creighton]

Roger,
"I gather you are too good for factory or field work. Is the impediment that you either can’t or you won’t wait tables? Too good to get a roommate to cut costs? Are you truly prepared to tell me that undocumented folk can find and hold employment but a college graduate cannot? Or is the problem here the part about “ jobs worth considering”. You make no mention of spouse or children. You are apparently healthy and resourceful enough to attend and graduate from college. Surely you do not expect us to believe that a single, healthy, unattached male (I am going to assume that you are male given your name) cannot carve out a living."

I actually do wait tables, on the weekends, and have been ever since I started college, working double shifts EVERY WEEKEND.
I just didn't feel it was necessary to mention because I don't really consider that a "job", its more of a task to me, that enables me to pay rent, while in search for a REAL job.

And yes, I do have roommates, five of them as a matter of fact.

In regards to the undocumented folk getting jobs and being able to hold them..Have you seen mob of undocumented day labors flocking the parking lot of your local home depot?
Im not sure how you can miss them, the numbers are multiplying faster than you can microwave a bag of popcorn.

And for those other undocumented people that you speak of that have this, uh, foreign magnetic ability to land white collared jobs, where are they? Let me know because I want to go ask them if I can borrow some of their magical fairy dust.

And while I am aware of the suffering third world countries are experiencing, this blog post was originally about US, as in, the citizens of The United States of America, and our immediate environment here.

I mean sure, throw me in any 3rd world country and you betcha im gonna be on the top 2% there but this is America, and
we are spoiled.

And as I mentioned, sure I could easily carve out a living, by working minimum wage jobs to survive, but you tell me, would u want to do all the dirty work they do in nickle and dimed?

And yes, I am a single healthy young male with a roof over my head, a 2008 Honda Civic, and an education and I'm still jobless. Open your eyes America, this is it.

[Creighton]

p.s Jose, please take a shower, and not my computer.

Double P.S
Roger, assuming you're a grandpa because you called me "son".
Let's here your marvelous story about how you made it out of the ditch of the great depression by waiting tables and factory work. Because obviously, you must have done something right to be able to have the luxury at your age to acquire new technological skills such as surfing the internet, although im not sure I would call it "advanced" since you are using Dial up.

[Creighton]

Spelling Error. *Here should be Hear. Like Roger lost his Hearing at age 98

[Chickensh*tEagle]

chris: "Though I expect little from Obama..."

E.g., getting elected to start with.

lc2: A couple more things to mention about roger and chris -- roger can't distinguish socialism from Stalinism, although he sees to have realized that using capital letters where appropriate maks his posts look a lot better; chris will play the anti-Semite card at the drop of a chickpea.

[JustCallMeKathy]

Creighton, Welcome to the American Dream!

[Lydia]

Oh boo hoo, Creighton. Give me a break. We are in the same situation, only I am a single mother ( due to my only poor life choices, not playing a sympathy card);it really is all in your attitude.

I recently graduated with a degree in social work ( and seriously, dude, sociology? In the economy? Like what did you expect?) and I am working 35 hrs. a week for 8.25 an hour in an entry level social service position because I couldn't get a job due to droves of experienced social workers being out of work and snatching up all the open jobs. But guess what? When a case management job opens up at my agency I'll be first in line to take it, because I was willing to "demean" myself doing the work of poor, uneducated people.

I make my bills and even have money for luxuries like the internet because I live modestly. One bedroom apartment gets cramped with a 2 year old in the house, but you do what you have to do. No fancy food, but at least are bellies are full. No childcare because I rely on extended family (retired grandparents, etc) to help me out in that department. That's part of what is wrong with our society. The family unit has be decimated to the point that people have to rely on the government instead of forming relationships with friends, family (this includes gasp! church family-I know most of you guys are probably too good for organized religion, too) to help in times of need.

My advice to anyone in this particular economy is to get into something like nursing (even if it's only vocational LPN nursing). That's a pretty rigorous program, Creighton, but if you want a job it only takes a year and a guarantee you that you will find work the minute you graduate and make a pretty decent living. Then you can get some experience and stairstep into an RN program if you like the job, and you'll be set for life. My mom is an RN for the VA and makes just under 100k a year. You will have to demean yourself, though. She has to gasp! wipe sick people's butts and everything. Doesn't seem to bother her though.

And to all of the sky-is-falling, end is near doomsayers. Like, seriously, shut the fuck up. You annoy me. The economy is cyclical. We'll be up and running again by the time my daughter is in high school if not sooner.

I'm pretty poor, though not destitute. Almost all of my 8.25 coworkers are poorer than me and have more kids. Yet, you know what? They survive. Somehow they survive, and they really don't spend all day bitching about how hard they have it. Most of them talk about their kids and their churches---I don't know where Barb found her people for Nickel and Dimed but the picture she painted isn't the reality I see.

[chris]

Lydia obviously understands how to manage her finances and balance her life while keeping an eye on her future. That's a success story.

[chris]

lc2, you wrote:

"If you're not rich, it's because you're lazy, entitled, stupid, immature, and just a basically inferior human being."

Obviously the preceding is the recording that plays endlessly in your head.

[chris]

chickenshit,

We hold presidential elections every four years. There is always a winner of the election. After that, the real ballgame begins.

However, if you believe that winning the election predicts a great presidency, then you have not been paying attention over the years.

If Obama is as lucky as Clinton -- No Major Assaults on the US by Hostile Forces -- then his administration would have a chance of remaining popular till it ends.

But he's not that lucky. We know this already. Iran is on its way to getting a nuclear bomb. If Obama believes he can persuade Iran to stop working on its nuclear bomb, he is out of his mind. But, he has said he will negotiate with Iran.

Of course the Iranian leadership will lie to his face and continue to build its bomb. When he is forced to face the facts, he will have a bigger problem.

Does Obama have the stomach for a pre-emptive strike against Iran's nuclear development facilities?

Or will he accept a nuclear Iran? Does he have the nerve to challenge a nuclear Iran?

What will he do if Israel wipes out Iran's nuclear program?

The recent episode in which Israel mopped the floor with Hamas should inform Obama that Israel will attack Iran's nuclear sites. What will he do after that?

How does Obama feel about Robert Mugabe and his destruction of Zimbabwe? Will Obama watch as Zimbabwe collapses? Or will he remove Mugabe by force?

Millions of Americans and millions of businesses have put out their hands for federal money. In other wrods, taxpayers are expected to hand over their money to people who defaulted on their mortgages.

Will the handouts take the form of reparations for slavery? That appears to be the coming demand.

[Creighton]

Lydia,

The thing that truly makes me sad about your story is not the fact that you're a single mother and have a daughter weighing you down, its the fact that your daughter is going to grow up without a father, which is going to damage her for life.

I myself was raised by a single mother with 3 kids, and I do understand how difficult it was for her to work late nights just to put a roof over our heads and food in our stomach, but those things, wern't enough. I needed the nourishment, and guidance, that only a mother could bare to her own children. But it wasn't available because my mother was always working. Trying to pay the bills because she fucked up, and had kids, and by her working harder, made her seem that everything was going to turn out just fine and dandy, because after all, children are emotionless and only depend on monetary entities in able to flourish into a successful individual right?

Somewhere during my adolescents, I became angry at the fact that she brought me into this world, with the awareness that my father had issues and she would soon be divorcing him, yet she chose to have another child (me) after already having 2 that she could barley take care of.

And her defense that "she was stupid" doesn't make anything better, let me tell you that.

It just really bothers me when people bring children into this world, and the children end up suffering for their parents stupidity.

Really.

And so while you're slaving away as a social worker making 8.25 an hour, you're abandoning your relationship with your child, the bond you need and the bond SHE needs in order to gain the psychological and physiological nutrients necessary for a normal adulthood.

If anything, I would start putting money away for her college if you havn't and then start saving for some medical bills, because she's going to need a lot of therapy.

You're lucky that you have family that is able to help you during these times, as for me, its me, and nobody else. I don't have a family. But one day, when I'm financially secure, I'll have one.

And if that day never comes, then so be it. At least I prevented another soul from joining the ranks of the disillusion.
Anyway, thanks for your advice and all, and god bless your daughter, that she will somehow defy all the social consequences of being raised by a single parent, and hopefully turn out normal.

And btw, I chose to study sociology because I loved learning about it, and still do.

But feel free to go lecture college freshmen on choosing the major that makes the most money, and tell them to forget about what your passionate about because there's never going to be happiness at the end, only money, and money makes everything better right?

[chris]

Creighton,

Sociology is an interesting subject. But unless a person is absolutely determined to work as a sociologist (or in a job requiring a sociology degree) or teach sociology, there's no reason to choose it as a college major. As a minor, sure. Or perhaps as part of a dual-degree program. Or, if someone is heading for law school, then a sociology degree is as good as any other.

Meanwhile, sociology is one of those subjects that a person can study for free. Anyone can read all the leading sociology texts without paying college tuition.

However, in the Obama administration, spending for social-service employees and programs will undoubtedly increase. Maybe your time to get a job in the field has arrived.

However, if you want to put your degree to work in a related field, you can probably pass the hiring test to become a cop.

[Larry In Lethbridge]

Hey chris,

you are right.If the USA has economic problems, yes then Canada does feel it. Might not be as bad as you think it will be though.

Nice try with the Nortel bankruptcy example. Nowhere near the same status as the flame outs from Lehman Bros and your sad sack Fannie Mac/ Freddie Mac/AIG/Bernie Madoff business models.
Say chris. How are you enjoying living with your folks in C'oeur D'Alene?

I thought they had thrown your racist lard ass in prison there for awhile.

[lc2]

Lydia,

I have to agree with Creighton on this one. You are minimizing the impact of your choices ... did you ever hear of adoption? The traditional societies you champion generally diluted the mother's role in a situation such as yours, often to the point of cutting her out entirely in the interest of the child. Furthermore, staying in any job for any length of time for less than $10/hr when you have a child to support is a poor choice too. Take your own advice and look for more lucrative work, or at least work with a guaranteed incremental raise. Good for your coworkers that they take solace in religion; but church doesn't put food on the table. Finally, you're wrong about seriousness of our current economic situation; while it may be cyclical as you claim, this hole has been getting dug for 25+ years. When the credit teat truly dries up, it will take at least that long for us to reinvent ourselves as producers and providers, not consumers. The days of going to college to wear $200 Uggs boots and $300 North Face jackets, paid for with credit cards, are over. And sorry to say, but in this new economy, jobs like yours will be first to go.

[Lydia]

This is all so ridiculous I really shouldn't be responding. I never stated that I had a child out-of-wedlock and I never said that my daughter was growing up without a father. I simply stated that I was a single mother. The circumstances are not the business of random internet people. Furthermore, when I said due to poor life choices, I was not referring to my daughter as a poor life choice I was referring to my selection of her father as the poor life choice. I wouldn't trade my kid for anything.

Third, to address Creighton's concern that my daughter is being deprived of love and attention: if you reread my post I stated I only work 35 hours a week. Most married women are not stay at home mothers and many kids my daughters age are in daycare from 8-6 because both parents work. So what's the difference? You seem to have a hard time accepting the realities of life. People have to work to make a living and cannot realistically sit around and play with their kids all day long. I cannot believe your mom actually told you that you were a product of her stupidity. That's really mean, and I can definitely see why you have issues from your childhood. But just because you had a bad experience with a single mother doesn't mean that everyone does. Duh.

[Timothy]

Oh boy, I can't believe 2 1/2 years later, the feud between the sad-sack socialists (who probably get sentimental about grass being cut), and the callous, chips-fall-where-they-may people (who probably think people hit by an 18-wheeler should "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps") rages on!

All I can say is that we need to accept viewpoints from "the other side" to be fully human.

[chris]

Larry from White Country -- it's always amusing when people who inhabit countries where blacks don't live comment about racism in the US.

Larry, have you seen any blacks in Lethbridge? Or do you only see them on TV?

Anyway, I was in Coeur d'Alene in December, visiting my mother and other relatives over in Spokane. The visit was pleasant but the weather was rough and flights were delayed.

The problems that nailed Lehman, Bear Stearns, Fannie and Freddie are serious. The Madoff problem is a problem of a different kind and has been misrepresented by the press. But the misrepresentation does not really matter.

As for solving the US financial problems, well, I have doubts about Obama's leadership on this issue -- which is probably the issue that will define his administration.

If the economy is dragging along three years from now, he will probably lose like Jimmy Carter in 1980.

In his inaugural speech, Obama pushed his idea of negotiating with anti-American muslim states. That plan is certain to fail.

If he "negotiates" while Iran obtains a nuclear bomb, huge problems will result.

The inauguration did not lead to a "Reagan Moment" -- the moment at his 1981 inauguration when the Iranians released the US hostages they had held for more than a year.

[chris]

Lydia seems to handle her responsibilities well.

[roger]

Creighton (January 12th): “ If I'm going to be forced to deteriorate my body at a young age, I'd rather do it rotting in the comfort of my own home. Therefore why bother wasting your energy cleaning houses, or surrendering your basic human rights for $8. “

Creighton (January 17th): “ And as I mentioned, sure I could easily carve out a living, by working minimum wage jobs to survive, but you tell me, would u want to do all the dirty work they do in nickle and dimed? “

(Also January 17th): “ And for those other undocumented people that you speak of that have this, uh, foreign magnetic ability to land white collared jobs, where are they? Let me know because I want to go ask them if I can borrow some of their magical fairy dust. “

Why do you refer to cleaning houses as dirty work?

What is it specifically about working for $8 an hour which robs you of basic human rights?

When I mentioned undocumented folk, this inclusion in no manner assumed that they would be either seeking or securing white-collar employment. That was your inference. You are assuming that the only viable (your word is real work) is white-collar work.

You come across as having the attitude that now that you have completed your college education, you are entitled to employment which those who do not have a college education must, out of necessity, perform: work which you describe as a waste of your energy and talent. Work, which in and of itself, necessitates a surrender of your basic human rights. You were the one who introduced into the discussion the term white-collar work. The implication being that blue-collar work is beneath you.

What is it specifically that business owes you, now that you have completed your education?

(Also January 17th): “ I mean sure, throw me in any 3rd world country and you betcha im gonna be on the top 2% there but this is America, and we are spoiled. “

Do you mean here that Americans are entitled to the avoid “dirty work” and that you, as an American, would be entitled to an exponentially higher standard of living because of your fortunate citizenship status?

Do you see clean, white-collar employment as an entitlement that you are now entitled to collect or that the blue collar work is nothing more than exploitation and oppression?

[Larry in]

Maybe we can find a spot for chris in Obama's administration ? Whaddya say chris ? You think you could do it ? Are you comfortable working for a muslim ?

One more thing. Black people do live in Canada. Last census revealed we were up to a few hundred.

[nan]

Let me give you a perspective from one of the 'poor to lower middle class folks'. I'm reading "This Land is Their Land" by Barbara (the first book of hers I've read), and I have to agree with a lot of what she says! I saw this credit crisis coming 6 years ago when I sat down and figured that it would take me 60+ years to pay off my credit cards if I paid minimum payments each month, and added no new purchases. At the time we were $9,000 in credit card debt! Worked that into a refinance, closed the accounts, cut up the cards. Of course, the refinance was one of those exotic (don't understand what's so exotic about it!)ARM loans, which, of course, we were promised to be able to refinance in another 2 years (oh the naivete and willingness to trust people who are supposed to be there to help people). Anyway, last year we brought home $50,000+, which is the most we've ever earned and a far cry from the so-called average middle class income! No credit card bills, no car payments, no health insurance (imagine that!), we are living cash and carry. But guess what? We can't refinance out of our ARM because of lack of credit! It must be the American way. For the last 3 years, our mortgage interest alone has eaten up 20-25% of our take home, add to that the price of gas topping out at almost $4/gal, rising food prices for a family of 4, helping to put our daughter through college (thank goodness she was a 4.0 GPA student and eligible for scholarships, etc), you get the picture. The point is, we're struggling on a day to day basis also, and I get so sick of hearing about all the fraud and profiteering from the few assholes at the top that can't be satisfied with their $400+ million bank accounts that were ill-gotten from the masses at the bottom. It's time for change and it needs to start at the bottom!

[Michael A. Banks]

Three million jobs? Yes, let's hope they're not all for young men with strong backs. Another Federal Writers' Project could be interesting.
--Michael A. Banks

[Chickensh*tEagle]

chris: "However, if you believe that winning the election predicts a great presidency, then you have not been paying attention over the years."

We'll just have to stay tuned to get the answers to the questions you raise. And of course winning the election doesn't predict a great presidency, which is why I didn't vote for a third term for the newly departed presidency.

My point was, we didn't get "McCain, not Hussein" after all.

[roger]

Peggy Noonan: " Domestically, Mr. Obama suggested, somewhat strikingly if now conventionally, that while Ronald Reagan was wrong in saying, in his first inaugural, that "government is not the answer, government is the problem," Bill Clinton too was wrong in saying, in a State of the Union, that "the era of big government is over." Such talk, Mr. Obama suggested, is beside the point. "The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works." Programs and policies that are effective should move forward, and those that are not "will end." He said that those who "manage the public's dollars" are obliged "to spend wisely . . . and do our business in the light of day." Greater transparency and spending that is not wasteful will "restore the vital trust between a people and their government. "

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123248758908299555.html

--I would like to believe that the chief executive would want to make government work correctly. Government working correctly would include protecting the citizens and residents of the United States, delivering appropriate services and maintaining infrastructure. In spite of President Obama’s intentions, the role of the government appears to be nothing much more than a device to transfer wealth to its beneficiaries. These beneficiaries are often auto executives who bet on the wrong horse and when the market for the SUV failed they had no back up plan. The banking industry suffers from similar myopia. I have mixed feelings about these stimulus packages. I can see the need to maintain employment for autoworkers and maintain a stable financial system to preserve savings and retirement accounts. On the other hand it certainly appears that the government would be once again rewarding incompetence and fraud.

Barbara: “ Obama is promising to generate three million new jobs in “shovel ready” projects, and let’s hope they’re not all jobs for young men with strong backs. Until those jobs kick in, and in case they leave out the elderly, the single moms and the downsized desk-workers, we’re going to need an economic policy centered on the poor: more money for food stamps, for Medicaid, unemployment insurance, and, yes, cash assistance along the lines of what welfare once was, so that when people come tumbling down they don’t end up six feet under. “

--I cannot be sure this is government working correctly either. Where there is a need for a strong safety net we should act. If we are simply creating government jobs to distribute wealth why would we not remove barriers to expanding private industry and allow business to create those jobs. As for greater amounts for Food Stamps and other poverty programs we should proceed with caution. Again we should provide strong safety nets for those in need. There is however nothing empowering about increased dependence on the government.

[lc2]

Lydia,

It's the height of irony that you portray as shallow and ungrateful, those social justice activists who would consider it unconscionable that a bachelor-degreed social worker makes $8.25/hr. According to you, the people with real integrity go to said job bright-eyed and bushy-tailed and angling for promotion (to what? $10/hr?) and then pray to feel a-ok with their circumstances and stay too busy to rally for change. I call b.s. You wouldn't be making even as little as you do unless plenty of shallow, ungrateful people in the past hadn't fought for a minimum wage. You stand on the shoulders of labor crusaders, suffragists, and civil rights activists who bore insults like the ones you level here. They were called atheists, ingrates, etc. too ... often by members of their own churches and communities. The fact that you -- of all things, a social worker -- don't readily identify this dynamic, reveals an inherent weakness in our educational system and the extent to which mass media have brainwashed us.

Yet, you portray your failure to keep a commitment with the father of your child -- someone with whom you have a legal and moral bond -- as a "choice" to be respected. Apparently the tendency to fight for better wages and a more just society is shallow, but the breaking of a sacred vow demonstrates integrity.

For the record, I go to church too, and nothing I've learned there says we have to lie down and accept an injustice. I have learned that keeping commitments and working through difficult personal dynamics is part and parcel of being a Christian, however.

[Timothy]

The way I see it, there are valid points made by both sides (progressives and libertarians). Western children have been raised by the ruling elite into thinking that they were all going to graduate from college, and manage a team of staff hailing from India, China and Africa.

That turned out to be scam or spectacular failure at best.

Those who criticize today's college graduates for acting "entitled" are just useful idiots. These are DAMN KIDS who were told that they were going to all be professionals and executives, all their lives, and so it is the fault of those who groomed them into this state of colossal disillusionment.

That being said, I believe it is time to adjust to reality, stop wallowing in self-defeating philosophies and start living!

[roger]

“ Those who criticize today's college graduates for acting "entitled" are just useful idiots. These are DAMN KIDS who were told that they were going to all be professionals and executives, all their lives, and so it is the fault of those who groomed them into this state of colossal disillusionment. “

--The term “ useful idiot “ typically has been attributed to Lenin who was alleged to have originally used it to describe naïve and useful progressives in the West who endorsed his communist policies. Lenin held these in contempt and used them only for purposes of propaganda. That you would attribute this attitude of contempt and expendability to a system which promises college graduates that they would be professionals and executives in full knowledge that the graduate would not achieve success is an interesting point of view.

--President Obama appears to disagree with you.

“ We remain the most prosperous, powerful nation on Earth. Our workers are no less productive than when this crisis began. Our minds are no less inventive, our goods and services no less needed than they were last week or last month or last year. Our capacity remains undiminished. But our time of standing pat, of protecting narrow interests and putting off unpleasant decisions — that time has surely passed. Starting today, we must pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and begin again the work of remaking America.

For everywhere we look, there is work to be done. The state of the economy calls for action, bold and swift, and we will act — not only to create new jobs, but to lay a new foundation for growth. We will build the roads and bridges, the electric grids and digital lines that feed our commerce and bind us together. We will restore science to its rightful place, and wield technology's wonders to raise health care's quality and lower its cost. We will harness the sun and the winds and the soil to fuel our cars and run our factories. And we will transform our schools and colleges and universities to meet the demands of a new age. All this we can do. All this we will do.

Now, there are some who question the scale of our ambitions — who suggest that our system cannot tolerate too many big plans. Their memories are short. For they have forgotten what this country has already done; what free men and women can achieve when imagination is joined to common purpose, and necessity to courage. "

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090120/ap_on_go_pr_wh/inauguration_obama_text

[roger]

Would you share with us what you mean by the state of colossal disillusionment?

Would you describe this condition as indexed against the extraordinary technological achievements of the proceeding 35 years to include mass electronic communication which technology you would use, without second thought I might add, in responding to this question.

[chris]

lc2, you wrote:

"You wouldn't be making even as little as you do unless plenty of shallow, ungrateful people in the past hadn't fought for a minimum wage."

Utter nonsense. If your claim were true, no one in the employ of someone else would earn MORE than minimum wage.

But even McDonalds must pay more than the "minimum wage" to attract employees in New York City. Meanwhile, when possible, businesses buy a machine rather than hire a human.

At the same time, the minimum wage creates an opening for those who will work for less, like many unskilled illegal aliens who work in New York City restaurants.

The US needs to end the minimum wage and create a Guest Worker Program. Those two steps would go a long way toward solving our illegal immigration problems and a lot of employment issues.

[Melanie N. Lee]

Tonight I wrote this letter on www.whitehouse.gov:

***
Dear Mr. President Obama:

I'm so glad I voted for you & glad you'll close Gitmo & end USA torture. After all, we're against "cruel and unusual punishment", aren't we?

I'm a writer hoping to sell her screenplay. I'm a part-time college writing tutor & I make little money. I'm great at tutoring, excellent at grammar, fair-to-good at teaching. At times I feel called to teach adults & help boost their skills. I need to support myself as well. Remember me when you address education!
***

If Obama does push forward an education initiative, that might be helpful to people like me and to the former desk jockeys that you mentioned. However, I don't know if such an initiative will be pushed anytime soon.

[Creighton]

"Ooooooo this shit is GOOOOOOOD!!!!!!"

No, those aren't the words of a black women when she opens a bucket of KFC extra crispy chicken, those were the words that came out of my mouth after not having read this blog comment war/entertainment or whatever the hell you want to call it for a 4 days.

Alright, so im going to try to respond to people in the order of their post.

First up, Mr. Chris in response to your comment on January 19, 2009 at 08:32 AM.

" But unless a person is absolutely determined to work as a sociologist (or in a job requiring a sociology degree) or teach sociology, there's no reason to choose it as a college major."

I'd have to disagree with you on this one. People go to college for all sorts of reasons, for me it was about discovering what I liked, and what I wanted to do in life. And although sociology typically doesn't generate a high income, I still took the chance of learning something that I was passionate about. And its funny, because the majority of the American work force, excluding specialized fields such as law and medicine, are working in Jobs totally unrelated to their major in college, and they are still successful and happy.
And besides, how many people actually remain in the field that they being working with? You can never truly pre-define your life, or what direction your careers going to go at what time. So, that being said, I feel that sociology creates a great foundation of understanding and provides a lot of flexibility for students fresh out of college.
I think that I just feel like I'm a bit overwhelmed and confused about which way I want to start my career.

But I do appreciate your optimism in regards to the hopefully soon to be wide availability of jobs for people in my shoes.

Okay, next it looks like lc2 is up. *High Five brotha!*

Okay, Lydia, your turn.
First of all, I'm not sure where we allegedly accused you of having a baby out of wed-lock, but that's not the point, the point I was trying to make is that your daughter is here NOW. And shes being raised by a single mother, and you're right, we don't need to know the details of who yo babies daddy be, or where or how you and yo babies daddy got it on. You can keep those private, or call Montel Williams and they will put on a show to determine who the real father is, that way you can hopefully get some child support. Hay!

But anyway, back to the point.

So you stated that "Most married women are not stay at home mothers and many kids my daughters age are in daycare from 8-6 because both parents work. So what's the difference?"

The difference is, that when the parents DO come home from work, theirs both a mother figure and a father figure in the house. (or two father figures or two mother figures in some instances).
But the difference is the Dual income baby! Upward social mobility! The more income the family brings in, the greater the chances of your child receiving a better education, proper food, health care, and perhaps be enrolled in some type of extra curricular cardiovascular activity, which will hopefully introduce her and motivate her to maintain a healthy active lifestyle while providing socializing benefits as well.

And you're right about both parents working, however, generally during the first five years of a child's life (the critical years) the parents either arrange (yes, its reality that people actually do think ahead before they bring more rabbits into the wild) different work schedules so that at least one legitimate parent can be with the child at all times, or they adequately prepare ahead of time financially, so that perhaps the father can be the bread maker while the mother properly nourishes her children, and that is the REALITY of responsible parents.

And finally, as a social worker, you should know that children who are raised from a single parent are indeed at greater risks of psychological instability, committing crimes and premature sexual acts. Look at the statistics Lydia, its true! If you think that I'm sour because I just had a rotten experience with my childhood and I'm now out of anger and jade, and ignorance, I'm generalizing my experience to the entire population of children who are raised without fathers, then you're wrong. Face the facts, and stop living in denial.

To the rest of you all, who I have not yet responded to, we'll, you'll get a dose of me later as I don't have the time right now to address everyone. Until then, good night!

[Creighton]

Typo * Theirs = there is. Opps!Excuse my grammar im wetodid.

[Timothy]

Roger,

I hope you are not suggesting I am a Obamahead or left-wing extremist because I am not. I could care less whether something was said by him or not. I judge statements based on their merits.

BTW I don't doubt we live in the highest levels of automation and human rights than any other time period. But let's not turn a blind eye to the growing # of people who will have no role to play in the global economy

[The Work Farce]

The rich get richer, the poor get horror. The wealthy get healthy and stealthy, the poor get the door. When all is said and done, the rich are said, the poor are done.

[Blu]

Thank you, "Barb"/Barbara. You are an amazing person for all you've done to bring the suffering and shame we inflict on the poor to light. I will be teaching your novel to my 11th graders next semester: Cannot wait! When I think of what a government is for, I imagine a man with no legs, crying, too thin, saying "Help me" with arms outreached. And it is our duty to help, but we don't. What is a government for if not to protect those who need protection? Ah, but yes, poor is synonymous in the American collective unconscious (conscious?) with laziness, stupidity, yadadada, and affluence is synonymous with innovation, intelligence, hard work. Shoot, even if there were some truth to how we stereotype the poor, I would rather give my tax money to three unscrupulous schemers to get to that one person, arms outreached, crying, starving, when she asks, "Help".

[Brian]

Well I have blogged all along we were entering an unprecedented financial crises and it continues to progress. Yes we were a debt feuled society and had no "real" collateral to back up our loans and mortgages. The value of bank stock is now the same percentage it was during the great depression, its just the mainstreet working economy is still doing much better though contracting at an accelerating rate. Very scary. Our economic system only needs a small middle class of managers and engineers any more. It still needs a fair amount of stoop labor and even still a fairly bloated upper class of financieers, doctors, lawyers, entreprenuers, and senior level managers. And we need a big military. However the emerging economy has no problem with increasing the size of the unemployed and permanently unemployed, no longer looking as long as the police state is beefy enough to maintain order in our hot spots. Ak-47' gunfights on the streets of San Diego now. Simply bailing out the rich, the banks, etc is a waste of money beyond this point. I am afraid there are probably 7-9 trillion dollars in troubled assets still out there, and 40 trillion in questionable derivatives. Oh there is some value in them, but nobody knows how to evaluate it, so for now, they are valueless, not assets, but troubled liabilities. We have already worked through a quarter to a third of it, and with the 2 trillion of stimulus likely under obama we will be through about half of it or a bit more, but unless we can value the troubled assets its likely to stall out in what I will call the little depression, hoperfully little. Unemployment will go up to near 10 percent or so a little more than a third of the great depression, and housing bankruptcys may go to 10 percent as well or a little less than half the GD. Its time to return to reading books, starting hobbies, taking in walks about your town, helping a cause. Its unfortunate this happened just before the baby boomers started retiring in droves as retirement money issues and health care are going to be an even bigger problem. The thing to watch over the coming weeks is how the banks hold up as damaged as they are and how fast and deep manufacturing contracts. We do live in a global world with global markets but will we adapt to sell into these new markets. Perhaps.

[Beth]

Creighton, everyone knows that the BA is the new high school diploma. Go to grad school. I am, and the job market seems much better! It's not that hard to get into grad school. Meanwhile, my former classmates who have stopped at the BA/BS level are still waiting tables and making burritos. And your attitude...I waited tables, cleaned houses, worked for the university, did research, babysat, etc. to pay my way through college. Waiting tables IS a job! It may not be the one you WANT, but it is a job. And really, dude, you thought that a degree in Sociology would lead you to a job?!?

[Brian]

There looks like an excellant masters program in sociology, research based, at the University of Hawaii at the main campus. It will teach you how to be an analyst, not a therapist, but that is fine if you have the interest. It looks really excellant. I think more people should take programs like that to build a balance of analytic skills before doing a doctorate. It would mean a research or analyst career in the public sector, university, or possibly industry and finance. Its true getting a masters degree will help develop your ba or bs interests and make you more marketable and its engaging, rather than simply waiting tables. Just go to a program where you don't incur much debt and you will be fine. That's the hard part.

[d.keefe]

Well done Barbara !

[Jacqueline S. Homan]

What everyone posting here has obviously missed is the siple fact that there are alot of Americans who have been socially and economically excluded. It's called "discrimination" - age/sex/race/class/appearance... you get the point. And when you've got more and more people competing for fewer and fewer resources (i.e. jobs that pay a living wage), there's bound to be significant numbers of people left out in the cold without a chance, and hence, poor. But no one need take my word for it. You can go research recent US Dept. of Labor reports and see for yourself. The ratio of the number of jobseekers to jobs (that pay enough to be able to live) is about 100 to 1. That means for everyone lucky enough to get a job that pays a living wage so student loans can be repaid without having to live in a "tent city", health and dental benefits, never mind paid sick days or paid vacation; there are 99 others who got left out and didn't get a chance. And the meager safety nets this country *used to* have that helped the poor who were being excluded has been eviscerated starting when the proverbial bootstraps (that the poor are somehow supposed to pull themselves up with) were sliced in two during the Reagan Revolution. But criticizing the "undeserving poor" - most whom are women - is just so much easier than admitting the system is broke and needs to be fixed, isn't it?

[roger]

“ What everyone posting here has obviously missed is the simple fact that there are a lot of Americans who have been socially and economically excluded. It's called "discrimination" - age/sex/race/class/appearance... you get the point. And when you've got more and more people competing for fewer and fewer resources (i.e. jobs that pay a living wage), there's bound to be significant numbers of people left out in the cold without a chance, and hence, poor. “

------You seem to be equating inequality with discrimination. You seem to be saying that the very existence of inequality demonstrates that discrimination is present. I searched “undeserving poor” and found this article from a pro bono legal service:

http://www.philadelphialawworks.org/legal_help/article_1205_poor.php

“ In the face of such overwhelming and ubiquitous poverty, focusing on the individual characteristics of those who are poor misses the point: there are concrete, identifiable social structures that create poverty. Inequality is built into all of our major social structures: housing, employment, health care, education, law. “

-----I would say that indeed there is inequality in society. To say however that is a person fails to gain an equal outcome- say someone fails to qualify to purchase a house and the next person is approved, I would say that this alone does not: 1) demonstrate that the person was discriminated against, as is your assertion, 2) That social structures are entirely to blame for the person who failed to qualify. The social structure presented in this example is the Finance Company. Are we at liberty to say that anyone who has not been approved by the Finance Company has been discriminated against and that the Finance Company is required, at risk of being accused of blaming the poor, to approve each person who applies for a mortgage regardless of the past choices of the applicant? Again there is plenty of inequality in society and there are certainly many structural restrictions to individual ability to create wealth. This circumstance however appears to be only part of the equation.

“ But criticizing the "undeserving poor" - most whom are women - is just so much easier than admitting the system is broke and needs to be fixed, isn't it? “

----I believe it is a perfectly legitimate question to ask that those who seek greater financial means, make better choices in their lives in an effort to gain this improved circumstance. As far as the system being broken what specific remedy would you suggest? What is replacement for the structure?

[Jacqueline S. Homan]

roger wrote: "...I believe it is a perfectly legitimate question to ask that those who seek greater financial means, make better choices in their lives in an effort to gain this improved circumstance. As far as the system being broken what specific remedy would you suggest?"

First, your assertion that the “haves” got theirs because of having made all the right choices in their lives while the poor didn’t is your first fallacy. Second, you’re operating from a very flawed deficit theory perspective that basically assumes everyone has the same choices, the same number of choices, etc in life. And that’s just not true. Ever hear of something called Bayes’ Theorem? Examples of its application include the Monty Hall Paradox. You’ve heard of “conditional probability”, have you not?

My suggestion is to begin dismantling the systemic barriers erected which serve to keep certain groups economically excluded (women, minorities, the middle-aged long-term unemployed, the poor) and one major barrier is the poverty-profiling in hiring practices. Another thing that needs to be drastically overhauled is the rigged market which you have confused with a fair and free market. We do not have either and have not had either for a very long, long time. What we have is far more jobseekers than adequate jobs. Thus, many people are bound to get economically left out in our post-welfare reform, pull-yourself-up-by-your-broken-bootstraps society. George Orwell would be so proud…

[roger]

Examples of its application include the Monty Hall Paradox:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem

" The standard Monty Hall problem is mathematically equivalent to the earlier Three Prisoners problem and both are related to the much older Bertrand's box paradox. These and other problems involving unequal distributions of probability are notoriously difficult for people to solve correctly, and have led to numerous psychological studies. Even when given a completely unambiguous statement of the Monty Hall problem, explanations, simulations, and formal mathematical proofs, many people still meet the correct answer with disbelief. "

It appears to be a probability proof.

[roger]

“ First, your assertion that the “haves” got theirs because of having made all the right choices in their lives while the poor didn’t is your first fallacy. Second, you’re operating from a very flawed deficit theory perspective that basically assumes everyone has the same choices, the same number of choices, etc in life. And that’s just not true. “

That is not what I believe or what I have proffered.

Me: “Again there is plenty of inequality in society and there are certainly many structural restrictions to individual ability to create wealth. This circumstance however appears to be only part of the equation. “

It is clear that there is injustice and inequality. There is power and abuse. One does not need to look any further than the theft of the Enron pensions to see this abuse of power. The “haves”, as you designate this population, may well have taken advantage of structural privilege and additionally may well have busted their butts to get to a position of security. To assume, as Marx did, that all wealth is theft from the masses, is incomplete doctrine.

Not everyone has the same choices. Those with limited opportunity cannot afford to make the unwise choices so frequently observed in poor populations. I work in Human Services for government. I have interviewed hundreds of families. Some of the choices this disadvantaged population makes are staggeringly risky and unwise.

There are consequences to decisions made within a competitive society. Some portions of society can afford to and will be forgiven for making poor choices.

Poverty will indeed amplify the poor choices of those without privilege and these cannot afford to play as recklessly as the privileged.

[Jacqueline S. Homan]

roger: "It is clear that there is injustice and inequality."

me: We can agree on that.

roger: "To assume, as Marx did, that all wealth is theft from the masses, is incomplete doctrine."

me: But to assume that poverty is a natural condition espouses social Darwinism - and no, poverty is NOT a natural condition. It is a man-made one.

roger: "
Those with limited opportunity cannot afford to make the unwise choices so frequently observed in poor populations. I work in Human Services for government. I have interviewed hundreds of families. Some of the choices this disadvantaged population makes are staggeringly risky and unwise."

me: But it is mathematically as well as physically impossible to make all the "right" choices 100% of the time, no matter who you are (unless you're God). That said, there also seems to be a social class bias through which you judge the life choices of others and thus, want to stingily withhold adequate help that may mean the difference between life and death for others not fortunate enough to have a middle class job with health benefits and security.

And I want to stress this: you're lucky that you got a chance for a good job with security and benefits and not having to freeze or go hungry. And because you DID get yours, other job applicants who might have been alot poorer than you (but were just as eager and willing to work, and just as qualified for the job) didn't get that job because YOU got that job - that chance that they might have needed just as badly, if not more so, than you. And this is precisely what those who've never been poor, who've never had to suffer and go without because of injustice and socio-economic exclusion fail to realize. Every poor person is someone else's "placekeeper."

What may make sense in the context of a poor person's life may not make sense to you - because maybe the only choices they had were between bad or worse; not between feasible or optimal because no matter what choice they made it would be wrong and they'd end up in a lose-lose deal.

Example: you're unemployable despite having the "right" degree (that you incurred massive student loan dabt to get) because you're a middle-aged partially disabled woman who has been out of the workforce due to injuries from an accident. Your husband is 65 and retired and the total household income you have is his $900/mo social security.

Your choices and consequences:

To work or not to work:

The only chance for a job you got during a fruitless 4 1/2 year aggressive job search was a part-time $7 an hour job with no benefits. If you take a part-tme, no benefit, $7 an hour job which is promptly garnished for the student loans you owe, leaving you with a total take-home pay of less than $200 for the whole month - on which you have to pay for transportation to get to work, food, utilities, and a roof over your head - you're screwed. But the government income guidelines to qualify for help fail to take that into account. As a result, your choice to work at the crap job without any real hope of ever getting anything better (due to being a disadvantaged woman) renders your husband with a heart conditition ineligible for Medicaid to pay for his Medicare co-pays and his $800+ a month prescription drugs he needs to stay alive, and also renders your household ineligible for $300/ mo in food stamps so the two of you don't starve. What do you choose so you and your husband don't freeze to death, die from lack of medicines, end up out on the streets, and go hungry?

Are you and your spouse any less deserving of the "right to life" as society's more fortunate who might have benefited from UNEARNED social class privilege, able-bodied privilege, male privilege, etc?

[Jacqueline S. Homan]

"Obama is promising to generate three million new jobs in “shovel ready” projects, and let’s hope they’re not all jobs for young men with strong backs. Until those jobs kick in, and in case they leave out the elderly, the single moms and the downsized desk-workers, we’re going to need an economic policy centered on the poor: more money for food stamps, for Medicaid, unemployment insurance, and, yes, cash assistance along the lines of what welfare once was, so that when people come tumbling down they don’t end up six feet under. For those who think “welfare” sounds too radical, we could just call it a “right to life” program, only one in which the objects of concern have already been born." ~ Barbara Ehrenreich

After the hundreds of billions in bailouts for Wall Street - for banksters, insurance tycoons and global corporations - there's not enough money left to provide a bailout to save real people's lives on America's Main Street. There's not enough money or serious political will to provide real and adequate help for the poor along the lines of a "right to life" program, or a big enough subsidized jobs program that won't fail to include the middle-aged long-term unemployed, the disabled (whose unemployment rate was 96% even in better times), the single mothers, the downsized office workers, the bankrupted self-employed/small business owners (who don't qualify for unemployment benefits) who have lost everything - including their homes. There's a lack of committment from COngressmen (who live in comfort) to help the poor - whom everyone has been socially engineered to view as disposable "untermentchen" these past 25 years.

Lack of will and lack of money. The wealthy elite made sure of that: first by social engineering, second by subverting justice and government, and third by economic cannibalism.

Meanwhile, what did the recipients of corporate welfare (no-bid contracts, etc) and generous tax-funded bailouts do with the money? THey partied and lived it up sucking down mai-tais on the beaches at exclusive resorts. They didn't put that money back into circulation into the national economy. They didn't shore up their foundering companies. CEO's didn't sacrifice anything - except other people's jobs - in order to maintain, never mind create, jobs for America's have-nots and therfore create or contribute to national prosperity in which ALL members of society derived some benefit. THe rich are small in number compared to the poor, including the "nouveau poor" which are the formerly middle class who are struggling in poverty now. The rich don't buy the same things or frequent the same establishments as the hoi polloi, so the handouts the rich got off of taxpayers' backs have not gone back into the economy creating wide-spread opportunity and prosperity: the rising tide that is, theortetically, supposed to lift all boats.

But when economic policy is centered on the poor, on those who have been socially and economically excluded, the money spent gets reinvested back into the mainstream economy. Poor women buy food, clothing, toiletries and Kotex. We pay for utilities and housing, and transportation and school supplies. And when we do, each $1 spent on these necessities generates $1.06 in economic activity. That keeps those lukcy enough to have good jobs employed with a certain degree of stability and security.

Maybe, just maybe, if America's "haves" wouldn't have been so greedy and self-centered and actually cared about and listened to the "whiney victims" of poverty; we wouldn't be in the economic black hole we're currently in and from which we may not be able to emerge within two consecutive generations.

[roger]

“ That said, there also seems to be a social class bias through which you judge the life choices of others and thus, want to stingily withhold adequate help that may mean the difference between life and death for others not fortunate enough to have a middle class job with health benefits and security. “

In the United States the financial vehicles available to the vast majority of the population are the following: 1) competitive employment, 2) government assistance. The question is not whether I, some inconsequent who is commenting on a niche blog when he should be working, have a class bias against the poor. The question is whether these vehicles can sustain the population to a degree of financial security such that the workers can continue to participate in competitive employment. In other words does Capitalism offer sufficient opportunity to the unskilled workers and to some degree the skilled workers to allow for continuing employment which in turn creates wealth which in turn fuels both wages from competitive employment and taxes for government assistance. These are the cards which have been dealt. My judgment of those who make risky choices is indexed against this perspective.

When the household gives birth to many more children than the household could possibly support or through carelessness loses job after job or incurs unnecessary debt my question to you would be: How nimble do you expect government to be and what response should competitive employment make, in response to these self inflicted obstacles?

[barbsright]

Jacqueline, and Roger, you both make good points. Roger, people make bad choices because they feel, rather then think, their choices.

Jacqueline, would you please give a more detailed account of the Labor department information that you base your claim that 'for every 100 people there is only one living wage job'. I agree that there are too few living wage jobs, but I would like to see your logic concerning your statement on the subject.

[roger]

Creighton on January 12th: “ If I'm going to be forced to deteriorate my body at a young age, I'd rather do it rotting in the comfort of my own home. Therefore why bother wasting your energy cleaning houses, or surrendering your basic human rights for $8. I'd rather die urinating in my own privacy with dignity and my basic human rights than to submit to having some stranger watch you pee in a cup then shortly after, check your pockets on the way out of the bathroom to make sure you didn't steal any paper towels or toilet paper. “

Jacqueline: “ you're lucky that you got a chance for a good job with security and benefits and not having to freeze or go hungry. And because you DID get yours, other job applicants who might have been alot poorer than you (but were just as eager and willing to work, and just as qualified for the job) didn't get that job because YOU got that job - that chance that they might have needed just as badly, if not more so, than you. And this is precisely what those who've never been poor, who've never had to suffer and go without because of injustice and socio-economic exclusion fail to realize. Every poor person is someone else's "placekeeper." “

There is nothing in Capitalism which dictates that a person is either entitled to avoid cleaning houses (in the first example) or that a person is entitled to the employment position of another person because the first person is just as eager and qualified to work. Within competitive employment there will be winners and losers. If you are suggesting that we discard Capitalism given it’s competitive nature, I would then ask with what would you intend to replace it? When you suggest “begin dismantling the systemic barriers erected which serve to keep certain groups economically excluded (women, minorities, the middle-aged long-term unemployed, the poor)” how specifically do you suggest this be done? We are working within a competitive environment. By all appearances (China, Soviet Union, German Democratic Republic) a planned economy does not provide financial security to the masses.

I have all sympathy for those who fail to compete or compete poorly. Please enlighten us with specific suggestions, in contrast to shaming tactics, which would improve the lives of those among the 300 million residents of the United States who are not fairing as well as the privileged.

[roger]

“ What may make sense in the context of a poor person's life may not make sense to you - because maybe the only choices they had were between bad or worse; not between feasible or optimal because no matter what choice they made it would be wrong and they'd end up in a lose-lose deal. “

---Again, it is not a question of whether I have bias or if is makes sense to me or if I have any opinion at all about the choices that the poor, as a class, make. The question remains: Can the poor afford to continue to live in this manner for generations and still expect to come out of the experience whole and intact?

http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=573

" You couldn’t avoid doing a double-take when you read it.

Karen Matthews, mother of the missing schoolgirl Shannon who thankfully was discovered alive and well a few days ago, referred to her daughter and one of her other six children as ‘twins’. These children are actually aged nine and ten.

But Ms Matthews says they are twins because she thinks that’s what you call children who have the same father. With seven children by five different men, she seems to have no idea of what having the same father actually means. "

[Jeff]

Have you read about Binyam Mohamed who read your "How to Build an H-Bomb" parody? (http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t33017.html)

He was illegally kidnapped and had his penis sliced to bits because he read your spoof online about how to make an H-bomb and who is now still held at Gitmo, where he is on hunger-strike, even though he is no longer accused of any crime.

Have you done anything to address such an outrage?

[Byron Tomes]

I am wondering what the Function of man according to Marx's communist manifesto is: is this definition correct or do you think other wise?

The function of man (what he is supposed to do) in an Aristotelian or platonic sense does not have relavence to Marx. This is because the function of man is determined solely by the conditions of his material existence. Because Marx does not make known what the function of man should and should not be, in the absolute truth sense of the terms, it is understood that one function which arises out of differing material conditions is no more legitimate or better than another. When Marx writes about the communist society, in which the material conditions necessitate a certain function of man, he is not necessarily stating that this particular function is better in any objective sense of the word. This function of man, necessitated by the material conditions present in communist society, is to work in such a way that exploits no one and benefits all equally.

[Elián Maricón]

As a social worker, I absolutely ADORE "rebranding" welfare as a "right to life" program. Maybe we should all combine our resources and hire Obama's award winning PR team. After all, when he recently discussed the seemingly endless stream of wildly unpopular bailouts, Obama pledged to "rebrand the program". Well, if he manages to successfully rebrand that mess, he can certainly rebrand welfare.

Great article.

[lc2]

roger,

I have a few specific suggestions, none of which, I predict, you will like.

1) Nationalized/socialized, whatever you want to call it, health care. As I'm sure you know, many people in these United States work full-time and yet are either not offered a plan through their employer, or can't afford it, no matter how impeccable their consumer choices. What's the point of this inequity? When you're looking at low-pay, entry-level jobs, a lack of affordable health care is a disincentive to work and marriage. It makes far more sense to either stay "single" or not work and get Medicaid. As long as it's run as efficiently as Medicaid and Medicare are (3% overhead compared to 37% in an average commercial health care plan), conservatives should love national health care because no one gets a cash benefit.

As an interesting side note, I was reading an analysis of fertility clinics' practices today (as regards the octomom) and it noted that "litters" such as these are nonexistent in other developed (read: socialized medicine) countries b'c in vitro is either covered or if not, is strictly regulated. In the US, on the other hand, many in vitro seekers only have enough $$ for one cycle, so they pressure docs to implant multiple embryos. Also, the "competition" you laud, roger, manifests itself in this arena in the sense of "90% of your money back if you're not pregnant!" etc.

In addition, our current health care system exerts a powerful, negative effect on wages. Layoffs occur most often not because wages are too high, but because of health care costs. It is the lynchpin of our depressed wages and debt cycle, etc. We cannot solve any economic problems without reinventing health care in this country.

Actually I think I will wait to see your reaction to that first suggestion. Hopefully it gives you something to chew over.

[chris]

lc2, you wrote:

"As long as it's run as efficiently as Medicaid and Medicare are (3% overhead compared to 37% in an average commercial health care plan)..."

Where did you get your numbers (3%, 37%)?

In short, they look preposterous.

MediCare costs were $8,000 per person per year. That number is rising.

MedicAid averages about $5,000 per person per year across the country. But in NY the number is $10,000 per person per year. Medicaid costs are also rising.

[www.democratz.org]

Send the following letter by US Mail or email or fax to your congressman and your 2 Senators and Senate Republican minority leader Senator Mitch McConnell. Tell other people to visit this site and have these people to get other people to visit this site.Then go to http://write-congress.democratz.org and answer yes to the poll to indicate that you sent this letter to congress.

You can send a free fax at http://www.faxzero.com to Senator McConnell.

Use this fax number 2022242499 and place it in the fax number box. Enter Senator McConnell in the name box. Copy the letter above and place it in the fax text box. Put your name in the sender name box and your email in the sender email box. Enter the captcha code and then click on the send button near the area that reads send free fax. The site will send you an email which you must then click on a link in the email to actually send the fax. When the fax gets sent you will receive an email.

Dear ( Senator / Congressman )

I want the following actions taken and legislation enacted into law.

Congress and the President must enact HR 676 single payer
universal health care and set up a new prescription drug benefit
in Medicare Part B covering 80% of the cost of all drugs with
no extra monthly premiums, no extra yearly deductible, no
means tests, no coverage gaps, and remove the means test for
Medicare Part B and until that happens, I won't buy
ANYTHING from Republican contributor Rite Aid Pharmacies.

The President must end the war in Iraq and until that happens
I will not buy any products from Republican contributor and
War contractor General Electric Corporation.

Congress and the President must enact a $10/HR MINIMUM
WAGE into law and until this happens I will not go to any
Republican contributor Wendy's Restaurants.

In 2008 Brown-Forman of Kentucky, the maker of Jack Daniels
Whiskey and Southern Comfort gave Mitch McConnell money
for his campaign.

SENATOR McCONNELL MUST NOT EXECUTE ANY
REPUBLICAN FILIBUSTERS FOR 8 YEARS DURING
THE OBAMA PRESIDENCY AND MUST GET THE
EMPLOYEE FREE CHOICE ACT ENACTED INTO LAW
AND UNTIL THAT HAPPENS I WON'T BUY JACK DANIELS
WHISKEY OR SOUTHERN COMFORT OR ANY OTHER
OF THEIR PRODUCTS.

Thank you.

[lc2]

chris,

Oh, those figures? I got 'em from the Int'l Communist Commission to Ruin Capitalism and American Ingenuity and Give Hard-Earned Cash to Welfare Ingrates. Heehee.

Bush did a great job delegating a Katrina response, too, doncha think?

[chris]

lc2,

In other words, you plucked the numbers from thin air.

New Orleans -- post Katrina -- yeah, the President of the US is always the person who heads urban construction projects.

South Central Los Angeles remained a burned out husk for the bulk of Clinton's two terms.

Meanwhile, both southern and northern California were able to repair the damage caused by the two earthquakes that struck the state several years apart.

Did a president get involved in the recovery from those natural disasters? Or were state leaders able to handle the job?

I admit Ray Nagin and Kathryn Blanco were about as weak as leaders can be. But it was their job to lead the recovery of New Orleans. Like Rudy Giuliani and Michael Bloomberg in NY City after 9/11.

[chris]

lc2,

Here's a few numbers for you. The latest annual bill for Medicaid in New York State was $45 BILLION.

However, this was the bill for the most recent year for which figures are available -- 2006. Therefore, you know the current numbers are larger.

To give you some perspective, the bill in California for the same year was $34 BILLION. But California has twice as many people.

Therefore, if you want to calculate the cost of a government healthcare plan, your estimate will reflect the high cost of the NY State program. Most likely, the NY State cost would become the benchmark for the nation -- somewhere near $10,000 per person per year.

Meanwhile, the Human Resources Administration has about 180 investigators assigned to catching Medicaid fraud in New York City alone. They are seriously overworked due to the vast amount of Medicaid fraud committed every day.

It will be easier than ever to rip off a national program.

[Carol]

I enjoyed Creighton's comments. He isn't pretending to be an advisor to anyone else. He isn't lecturing anyone else and through his language and direction he is taking us to a place nobody wants to go. It effectively evokes the horror that is our lot when wealth has been allowed to run amuk since---forever!

[Homer]

I feel like a nitwit studying Liberal Arts in college. I can’t believe I sat in class listening to professors’ lectures about values and ideals. No one in the real world cares and besides it is too expensive to try and fix the world. Can you believe I actually paid for it?

The only education that is paying anything once you graduate from college these days is the college of nursing. Too bad I did not study to become a nurse. If I had foreseen that America would only get sicker, and that the only person that they would be willing to give their money to would be those that would give them a little more time on earth (even during a recession) I would have studied nursing.

At least after I was fooled I told my sister not to listen to any of the foolishness spewed out by professors and concentrate on a nursing degree. Sure she would listen to professors and pass all of her core classes, but I told her to never take it in, to never let it change her. I told her never to slip into the trap of studying liberal arts. I told her to concentrate on getting an education that is directly linked to getting you a good job that will be necessary in the future. I told her that if she ever needed any explanation on any difficult liberal arts topic she could just ask me.

Now when she graduates, and it will be soon, she will be able to get a good job that is in demand. She will be far ahead of all the students graduating with liberal arts and business degrees. Meanwhile I will still be struggling with a B.A. in Liberal Arts trying to become a teacher.

Go back to school you say. I would if I could afford it. I am still trying to pay my college debt and school costs so much now. Also the university I go to does not give out grants to graduate students. So now I am stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Well at least one will make it out.

It is true: it is not what you know it is who you know. And if you don’t know anyone make sure to know the market. Follow demand, don’t follow ideals. Be a realist, not an idealist.

[Jacqueline Homan]

roger: "I have all sympathy for those who fail to compete or compete poorly."

Roger, there is no "failure to compete" or compete poorly" when our vulture capitalistic society is about as competitive as shooting fish in a barrel. When disenfranchised groups are unjustly denied equal opportunity to compete, where's the merit in the competition? For that matter, where is the competition?

What you are doing is attempting to cloak social Darwinism and its evil twin eugenics under the respectability of the words "competitive capitalism." You are defending the indefensible by championing an unjust status quo of the current system of UNEARNED privilege (i.e. white privilege, male privilege, youth privilege, social class privilege, and able-bodied privilege)to remain unchallenged. (Vested interest, perhaps?)

If you want any form of real meritocracy, you would be for what is FAIR. And if you want FAIRNESS ( a necessary component of real meritocracy) in this competitive capitalist dystopia, you would not defend maintaining a system of conferring unfair advantages and unearned privileges on certain members of society that entail social injustice for others(like discrimination).

Being a privileged, non-disabled, middle-class white guy, this is hard for you to accept because that may mean you might have to acknowledge that you didn't necessarily "get yours" fair and square. In order for us to have a true free market based on true meritocracy, you would have to lose some unearned privileges and unfair advantages you've grown accustomed to getting from society.

In order to have any REAL meritocracy instead of merely paying lip service to having a meritocracy, that means middle and upper class white able-bodied males are going to have to lose some privileges which they've come to view as entitlements - similarly to the way a spoiled child accustomed to getting an allowance feels ripped off when their allowance (that was given to them, not earned) is cut off.

roger: "Please enlighten us with specific suggestions, in contrast to shaming tactics, which would improve the lives of those among the 300 million residents of the United States who are not fairing as well as the privileged. "

I just did make a few suggestions - beginning with dismantling the UNEARNED privilege system that shapes and molds the life chances of people without respect to true merit, and bringing fairness into the equation by means of affirmative action laws with teeth, workers' rights laws with teeth, and having a safety net that says of our society, of our nation, that there is a bare minimum amount of dignity afforded to the least able in our society because we have raised our standards - by raising the floor.

[Jacqueline S. Homan]

roger: "When the household gives birth to many more children than the household could possibly support or through carelessness loses job after job or incurs unnecessary debt my question to you would be: How nimble do you expect government to be and what response should competitive employment make, in response to these self inflicted obstacles?"

I expect the government to be nimble enough to refrain from further evisceration of Roe v. Wade with laws that allow pharmacists to refuse to fill contraceptive prescriptions because of their religious beliefs -even in the case where pregnancy could have resulted for an 18 year old rape victim from Lancaster, PA. She was denied access to Plan B and traveling all the way to the nearest pharmacy was not tenable for her because she was poor and had no car.

When abortion is kept legal and safe (and AFFORDABLE for poor women), when contraceptives are made available for those least able to afford to get pregnant (and then dumped by the co-conceiver); when more contraceptive options exist for women with pre-existing medical conditions who are currently unable to get ANY contraception - that is when you won't see as many poor women making the "poor choice" to have more kids than they can afford.

[Jacqueline S. Homan]

roger: "..what response should competitive employment make, in response to these self inflicted obstacles?".

I previously answered this question regarding leveling the playing field so we have a truly competitive meritocracy instead of this sham of one. And here is further detail on removing classist barriers so that classism does not perpetuate a systemic catch-22:
http://poverty.suite101.com/article.cfm/classism

[ogre]

Lets try to stay focused on the topic here, class. And please remember,
"Empty vessels make the most noise".

[The Eternal Squire]

I've been away from this board for a year, and I came back to see what peoples' reactions were now that the predictions of the Cassandras on this board have actually come true.

Seems that the attitudes and reactions after the economic collapse are no different than the ones before.

I guess for being jobless I am extremely lucky. Now I am the wife in this household and the wife is the husband.

I hold degrees in electrical engineering and computer science, with 15 years of work experience. But I have not been able to find any such work in 3 years.

I also have not been able to find any of the $8 per hour work or less, because employers keep telling me I am 'overqualified'.

At least I will never starve for being a kept man, but I am very bored though.

Anyone have ideas for products I can build and sell?

The Eternal Squire

[Elizabeth Barrette]

Excellent points, all. However difficult it may be to fix all the damage done to the economy, the middle and lower classes, and various social programs -- we had better find a way. Because until we do, the economy will keep collapsing and *everyone* will keep suffering.

[Sarah]

Basic courtesy and civility toward those with differing opinions might do a lot to convince me that our civilization deserves to survive.

Focus on what we can do to improve our situation.

[Yvette]

Hey, a friend of mine has started The Global Communist, which aggregates and is trying to help out the far leftist (socialism, communism, anarchism, etc) blogging community.

We love your blog (and your book) and would really love to have any of your posts submitted to our first Red Carnival, a blogging carnival open to any far-leftists, which is also open to human rights and anti-war movements, among other things.

[Yvette]

And, of course, I forget to post the link.

How unsurprising of me. ;)

http://global-communist.com/redcarnival.php

[Successful Researcher: How to Become One]

This post ties in nicely with your Bait and Switch book that I enjoyed reading. Do you plan to return to the subject in some other book?

[Tracy Laswell Valdez]

Hi Barbara,

I'm a job search coach who read Nickel and Dimed years ago, and I'm halfway through Bait and Switch, which I greatly appreciate. Love your irreverent take on the complexities of the white collar job search. Definitely helps me to be more sensitive to the world of hurt my clients are in. I will continue to do my best to provide pragmatic, positive solutions.

Thank you!

[Brian]

The Disappearing Poor in todays New York Times was the first real think piece I have read in a long time. I think your right about the unemployment rate being close to 20 percent as the entire LA southland is really on the skids right now. I think we forget the chronicity of the poor in America and just go with the CNBC narrative that its just a deep recession and all the jobs will bounce back. I predict that over time America will only employ a smaller percentage of its people as productivity is maximized. The growing problem of a permanent underclass, always present really, will begin to ensnare more and more of the former middle class. The Post WW11 boom era was great but has continued to wilt over the past 40 years. As has the sense of middle class entitlement and security with it. Our government should really focus on providing inexpensive housing and healthcare for all of us at the very least.

[Moi]

Please go to www.change.org and check out the cross-country trip Mark Horvath is taking on behalf of homelessness.... The poor haven't disappeared. They are out there, and he is going to show you where they are.

[Allison Montegue]

Wow, it's amazing how much hostility exists in America. For those of you who have been paying attention to economics, America does not have a financial problem and lack of jobs simply due to the derivatives market or housing bubble. During the last depression we were the largest lender nation - now we are the largest debtor nation. We're hemorrhaging jobs and income to pay off debts whose interest has been compounding at an alarming rate. Probably the single reason we still have a heavily traded currency is due to the fact that the US dollar was declared the currency of choice by NATO many years ago. That is also changing, as NATO now accepts the Euro as well.

I mention these things not because I want to spread doom and gloom, but because this is our reality now. People are (for the most part) not out of work because they're stupid, entitled, worthless or any other insulting adjective. Unemployment has become structural, age discrimination has become the norm and employers are routinely saving money by downsizing, off-shoring, outsourcing and hiring consultants. People try to make the mostintelligent decisions they can with the resources at hand. When I went to college I was told that anyone who didn't pursue a liberal arts degree would be rejected by employers as a poorly rounded individual. This was true at the time (the 80's) but no longer. Things change and we have to figure out how to survive the changes, as we basically have no choice. I hope that this downturn is not a new depression, but even if not we have a long way to go before things begin looking up again.

[Pythagoras]

Chris,

You talk about stuff like typical wingnuts. Do you guys actually have independant thinking or is everything you say just re hash from the Rush-into-Limbo and Glen Specks programs?

America the great economy and superpower of the world got into a very difficult recession, near financial collapse, because of a liquidity trap. There is only one way to get out of a liquidity trap and that is to spend. believe it or not, it actually makes sense. We are suffering from a huge shortage of monetary supply, why do you think we are in a state of deflation?

Here is the reality for you. Reagan's trickle down philosophy began with his deregulation of financial industry. If you graph the income disparity from early 1900's to 1980's the disparity was pretty even. From the time Reagan took office till present day the income disparity has grown 7 fold. The richest top percent of this country controls all the wealth!

It some way i think of it like a poker game with a finite amount of chips. Reagan at the end of the table has all the chips and the rest have empty pockets.

How are you going to get money back into the hands of the poor if one or a few entities control the wealth? Where's the trickle down???

here's the answer: Stimulus.

Got to make some more chips. So what if the wealthiest one percent lose some of their 7 fold wealth due to inflation!

[custom essay]

Nouveau poor, refers to a person who had once acquired considerable wealth, but has now lost all or most of it. This term is generally used to emphasize that the individual was previously part of a higher socioeconomic rank, and that such wealth that provided the means for the acquisition of goods or luxuries is currently unobtainable. These people are not actually poor, but compared to their previous rank, it seems as if they are.

[Michaelgomes]

This post really reveals the truth.It is always true that rich has always dominated the poor and always had a better chance to get richer then the poorer. Rich person have always got better opportunity whenever the stood in Que in terms of every aspects of life as they had the money which they used as their power.And they enjoyed all the benefits of their life.While the poor suffered.

[Account Deleted]

Barbara, you are right! Now we're having a hard time! As for me, I lost my job, searched for another one but failed, so now I'm trying to earn another degree. Hope, one of those Obama's new jobs will suit my degree. And believe, soon we will see light at the end of the economic tunnel!

[Account Deleted]

Barbara, you are right! Now we're having a hard time! As for me, I lost my job, searched for another one but failed, so now I'm trying to earn another degree using custom writing assistance. Hope, one of those Obama's new jobs will suit my degree. And believe, soon we will see light at the end of the economic tunnel!

[Michael]

There is a process that has been taking place in American employment practices for the last 30 years. What has been happening is the end of the era of milk and honey, and a leveling of the current wages for a majority of workers at the 1980 average wage level. This is also known and celebrated among all great capitalists as TADAH------ GLOBALIZATION. Or the China price or the Wal-Mart Effect, etc. etc. Globalization has made it real easy for Chinese people to do the same job at one tenth of the cost. So why not cut the cost of production?

The real question and the heart of the problem is; why can the Chinese do the same job so much cheaper? The answer is they don't have to pay as much as Americans do for real estate or for rental spaces. Their government provides their living quarters.

If I didn't have to pay 400 dollars a month for rent, and 100 dollars for utilities, and 300 dollars for car payments and 80 dollars a month for car insurance, and 100 dollars a month in gasoline just to keep a job, I could easily work for 4 dollars an hour and be happy as a clam with my life. As you can see if you do the math a worker making 12 dollars an hour would take home after taxes 1350 dollars a month. If you do the math on what it cost simply to keep a job it adds up to 1000 dollars a month. If you lower that wage by 2 dollars an hour which is what you'd make working third shift at the local Wal-Mart store then you'd end up just breaking even. Good luck eating. But this is America and TANSTAFL.

Nickeled and Dimed, is for real.

It won't be long before the rich people run out of other people who can afford to buy their shit. I.E. they will end up poor like the rest of us because no one will have a job except the Chinese and Indians where all the jobs got outsourced to. Hell the Chinese are going to run out of people who can afford to buy their shit. So even they will be out of jobs, and the Indians won't have anybody calling them because none of us can afford to buy stuff that requires over the phone technical support.

We did this to ourselves.