Gap Kids: New Frontiers in Child Abuse

It was enough to make you vomit all over your new denim jacket. The Gap has been caught using child labor in an Indian sweatshop, and not just child labor--child slaves. As extensively reported on the news, the children, some as young as ten, were worked 16 hour days, fed bowls of mosquito-covered rice, and forced to sleep on a roof and use over-flowing latrines. Those who slowed down were beaten with rubber pipes and the ones who cried had oily cloths stuffed in their mouths.

But let’s try to look at this dispassionately – not as a human rights issue but as a PR disaster, ranking right up there with the 1982 discovery of cyanide in Tylenol capsules. Think of this as a case study in a corporate Crisis Communication course: How is The Gap handling the problem, and could it do better?

This is not the first time The Gap has been caught using child labor, but CEO Martha Hansen went on the air to state that the situation was “completely unacceptable” and that the company would “act swiftly.” Two problems here: One, she failed to detail the actions. It would have been nice, for example, if she had announced that some of the top-producing child slaves would be reassigned to manage Gap outlets in American malls, and that the under-performers would be adopted by Angelina Jolie.

The other, more serious, problem is that she got defensive about child labor. This is the mistake Kathie Lee Gifford made in 1996. When accused of using child labor in Honduras to manufacture her Kathie Lee line of clothing, Gifford broke into tears on TV. Maybe Hansen meant to cover herself by saying that The Gap would not “ever, ever condone any child laborer making our garments” rather than saying the company does not condone child labor itself. We already knew, from the rubber pipes and oily cloths, that The Gap does not condone much from its child laborers.

Hansen underestimated the potential support for a full-throated defense of child labor. More and more American children are tried and punished as adults today. And the ubiquitous conservative pundit William Kristol will surely be enthusiastic, considering his recent – though possibly facetious-- statement that “whenever I hear anything described as a heartless assault on our children, I tend to think it's a good idea.”

The core of the argument, though, is that anyone who opposes child labor has not witnessed its opposite, which is child unemployment and idleness.

Hansen claims to be a mother herself, but I wonder how often she has returned home from a hard day in the C-suites to find her unemployed offspring Magic Marker-ing the walls and crushing the Froot Loops into the carpet. This is what jobless children do: They rub Crazy Glue into their siblings’ hair; they spill apple juice onto your keyboard. Believe me, I see this kind of wantonly destructive behavior every day. Vandalism is a way of life for unemployed children, and they do not know the meaning of remorse.

In fact, corporate America should go further and make a strong statement against the sickening culture of dependency that has grown up around childhood. Why are jobless children so criminally inclined? Because they know that whatever damage they inflict, the Froot Loops will just keep coming. The Gap should portray its child-staffed factories as part of a far-seeing welfare-to-work program, which will eventually be extended to American children as well.

To appeal to American parents, our own child factories should be run more like Montessori schools, where the children are already encouraged to regard every one of their demented activities as “work.” If they’re going to pile up blocks and knock them down all day, then why not sew on buttons and bring home a little cash? But even American families will have to brace themselves for the inevitable cost cutting measures. First the cookies and milk may have to go, then, as in India, the toilets and beds. Wal-Mart has already pioneered the price-cutting defense of human rights abuses, and The Gap should follow suit.

The company can of course expect some lingering opposition. Just as there are vegetarians and pacifists, there will always be some men, for example, who would rather wear skirts than blue jeans impregnated with the excrement and tears of ten-year-olds. Well, let them shop at American Apparel or some other “sweat-free” vendor, and if they can’t find anything there, let them wear dhotis. In a nation that cannot bring itself to extend child health insurance (SCHIP) to all children in need, child-made clothes make a fine fashion statement. And why not accessorize your denim jacket with a scarf derived from one of those oily cloths stuffed in weeping workers’ mouths?

Comments

[jeff]

Uggh - what happened with GAP is deplorable but it has *nothing* to do with SCHIP and associating the two turns a laudable condemnation in a tiresome, Moore-esque rant.

[Rachel]

Actually, I think SCHIP and the abuses at Gap have everything to do with each other in terms of illustrating, quite vividly, American cultural values and where children fall on that scale. I think this blog was sharp and well written. When a corporation abuses children so thoroughly I think everyone is entitled to a little ranting.

[Tim Worstall]

Worth recalling Paul Krugman's words on this subject:
http://emirateseconomist.blogspot.com/2007/10/in-praise-of-sweatshops-oldie-but.html

"When the movement gets what it wants, the effects are often startlingly malign. For example, could anything be worse than having children work in sweatshops? Alas, yes. In 1993, child workers in Bangladesh were found to be producing clothing for Wal-Mart, and Senator Tom Harkin proposed legislation banning imports from countries employing underage workers. The direct result was that Bangladeshi textile factories stopped employing children. But did the children go back to school? Did they return to happy homes? Not according to Oxfam, which found that the displaced child workers ended up in even worse jobs, or on the streets — and that a significant number were forced into prostitution.

The point is that third-world countries aren't poor because their export workers earn low wages; it's the other way around. Because the countries are poor, even what look to us like bad jobs at bad wages are almost always much better than the alternatives."

[gaby]

When I was child I have learned about hungry children in Africa, exploited children in India, prostituting children in Thailand. I am now middle-aged and they are still hungry, exploited, and prostituting. Quite frankly, I don't want to hear it anymore.

It is the parents responsibility to look after their children, check up on them and ensuring that they receive proper care. What are these parents doing anyway, sending their children to these corporations to work? If they are so poor they should not have children in the first place.

[Christine]

"It is the parents [sic] responsibility to look after their children, check up on them and ensuring that they receive proper care. What are these parents doing anyway, sending their children to these corporations to work? If they are so poor they should not have children in the first place."

Very funny, Gaby. I always imagine that it must be that have never read Swift's A Modest Proposal and thus don't know that their children could be a steady food source. But you know the poor: they just breed away, hoping to somehow subvert your utilitarian values.

[Dawn]

It seems that Jonathan Swift addressed a similar situation in his "A Modest Proposal" and appeared to be in agreement with gaby's comments. Swift wrote satire of course. I'm not sure what gaby is writing....

And Tim's comments about Bangladesh children really brings things into perspective, that even good intentions can cause dire results.

All of this talk we hear about revere the family, protect the family -- every government action speaks loudly that just the opposite is true.

Then again I think about my father who was shining shoes and selling newspapers on street corners with his brothers when he was only 4 years old. That was the good news in his life -- that they could do something about their poverty and contribute to the family. So is the job the worst part of being poor? Eating, finding shelter, keeping warm, having clothes to cover him, those were concerns my father never stopped worrying about. I think there is more to consider than simply the mistreatment of the children. That in itself is awful, but as Tim pointed out, take the job away and what do they have left?

Thought provoking discussion. Thank you.

Dawn

[gaby]

At this point in my life I leave it to likes of Bill Gates and company to worry about it and to "do something" about it. I, for one, tend to be too tired after working a full-time job during the week and a part-time job on weekends to contemplate other people's misery.

Yes, I know, the poverty issue is very complex and blaming the poor for their misfortune is wrong. But, as I age I cannot deny that a degree of cynicism is setting in. No matter how much is done and donated, the suffering never seems to stop.

A point I like to make, though, is that there are parts of this world where human life is just not valued in the same way it is here in the Western world. As Tim pointed out, trying to impose our values on their society brought about even more misery for them.

[chris]

A Few Words from The Gap

India activists decry Gap child labor

NEW DELHI (AP) — The Indian children reportedly found making clothes for Gap Inc. should be reunited with their families and compensated by the government, activists said Monday amid a spreading scandal about the use of child labor by the international clothing chain.

The reported discovery of children as young as 10 sewing clothes for clothing retailer Gap Inc. in a New Delhi factory has renewed concerns about child labor in India, but government officials offered no comment Monday.

"The biggest responsibility here lies with the Indian government — they don't develop a way of monitoring" factories, said Bhuwan Ribhu, a lawyer who works with Bachpan Bachao Andolan, or the Save Childhood Movement.

"International companies hire subcontractors and then forget about it. There is no monitoring at all," Ribhu added. "Where the Gap is concerned, at least they've taken a good pro-active stand against the subcontractors."

Britain's Observer newspaper on Sunday reported that it had found children making clothes with Gap labels in a squalid factory in New Delhi. It quoted the children as saying they were from poor parts of India and had been sold to the sweatshop by their impoverished families. Some said they were not paid for their work.

Gap responded quickly, saying the factory was being run by a subcontractor who was hired in violation of Gap's policies, and none of the products made there will be sold in its stores.

"We appreciate that the media identified this subcontractor, and we acted swiftly in this situation," Gap spokesman Bill Chandler told the Associated Press on Sunday. "Under no circumstances is it acceptable for children to produce or work on garments."

Child labor remains a widespread problem in India, despite the country's economic boom and its growing wealth.

The government has repeatedly tried to ban the use of child workers — in 1986 outlawing them from working in dangerous industries, such as glassmaking, and last year banning them being employed as domestic servants or in restaurants.

But the prohibitions have had only a minimal impact and children's rights activists estimate that 13 million children are still working in India, with many being used in labor-intensive businesses like carpet-weaving and in dangerous industries, such as making fire crackers.

Chandler said Gap requires its suppliers to guarantee that they will not use child labor to produce garments. Gap stopped working with 23 factories last year over violations uncovered by its inspectors.

The San Francisco-based company has 90 full-time inspectors who make unannounced visits around the world to ensure vendors are abiding by Gap's guidelines, he said.

[Maya's Granny]

As long as societies have large gaps between the poor and the rich, there will be injustices like this. If we wish to end child labor, we need to close the income gap.

[Solo]

Very few children here or around the world have "Ozzie and Harriet" type upbrings. In fact, even the Nelson boys didn't.

So if in order for a family to make ends meet children must work then they must work in safe, clean conditions.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating child labor. But it is a reality and has been since before the days of Dickens.

Farm families and pioneer families often had lots of children because they needed the extra hands. Children were often used in machine shops because their smaller hands reached places adult hands couldn't go.

In a perfect world no child should have to work to eat, but in this world if work is their best options then it is up to the government and retailers to insist and assure that conditions are humane.

Outlawing child labor in countries were people are starving only forces it underground creating the worse conditions imaginable.

[roger]

"In a perfect world no child should have to work to eat, but in this world if work is their best options then it is up to the government and retailers to insist and assure that conditions are humane.

Outlawing child labor in countries were people are starving only forces it underground creating the worse conditions imaginable."

we speak of a perfect world as if it is the childs environment which is the issue and as if these familes have any control over their future. if we accept the tawdry argument that children must work in developing countries in order to eat then the question become which entity is responsible that the children are working in these conditions. i say tawdry because the govt is unwilling or unable to provide for its most vulnerable citizens. did gap fail them as a class or is the indian govt to blame for allowing this to continue. the caste system in india is impermeable. this is a social stratification which would allow just such abuse as barbara describes. gap is not blameless here. a much heavier blame however rests at the feet of govt, politics and class sturucture in the asian subcontient.

Barbara: "The core of the argument, though, is that anyone who opposes child labor has not witnessed its opposite, which is child unemployment and idleness.

facetious and silly conclusion to a fallacious question.

[Chickensh*Eagle]

Tim: "...and that a significant number were forced into prostitution."

Take that a step further -- if we don't avail ourselves of these children's services, they'll starve.

gaby: "...trying to impose our values on their society brought about even more misery for them."

We can, however, impose our values on American companies that import these goods. They typically retail them at huge markups over what they pay for them. If the Gap is living up to the statement chris posted, fine. Now how about the rest of them?

chris and roger: I've replied to your last posts in the previous thread. Wouldn't want you to think I tried to get the last word by stealth.

[A Canadian]

I don't really believe that GAP wasn't aware of the problem. Why did they outsource their labor there in the first place? Because it's cheap and it allows them to make even GREATER PROFITS. Let's not get fooled by their insincere concern for the poor children in India. They knew full well what they were paying for. They're just sorry that they got found out. Who is really to blame? Consumers who want ever-cheaper goods. We can't stand there and gasp when we discover this horrible fact. We created it in the first place.

[roger]

"We created it in the first place."

do we really have that much control over where the products are manufactured. suppose we were able to organize and boycott all manuactured goods from china, india and malaysia. the manufacturers would then move operations to thailand and mexico and continue production. i am always wary of these arguments that some poor smuck in de moines who buys a pair of shoes is responsible for the misery of the folks who manufactured the goods. how many hands did the product go through in the meantime? who is responsible to maintain proper work conditions? who decided to sell their children to the factory to begin with? why is the thai govt sufficiently corrupt to allow abusive child labor? how old are the children in question? why are the import regulations apparently so lax that this type of product is allowed in the country?

there is no justification for child abuse whether committed in the workplace or otherwise. at the same time we would do well to recognize that trade is a very complicated issue and that a straight line cannot be drawn from sweatshop to consumer.

[Andrea]

Well, here's the thing. No human being should have an oily rag stuffed into his or her mouth for crying. Then too, no human being should be beaten with a rubber pipe for working a little slower when he or she is tired. I think the reason that it happens is that the people who are catching the beatings are smaller and less able to defend themselves than the people who are dealing out the abuse. The people dealing out the abuse are not able to defend themselves against the people who are demanding the output at levels the workers can't sustain.

Now, I remember being expected to work when I was a child. I had household jobs to do, as did my brothers. Dad needed small jobs done in his office, for which I received a small sum of money. When I messed up, however, Dad corrected me and made me do the work over. He kept the oily rags and the rubber hoses in the garage and tried to teach me a thing or two about being careful.

It's not work that's bad for children. Work is as much a learning opportunity as school. It's lack of any opportunities to do anything other than labor in sweatshops, and the abuse, and the systemic devaluation of certain human lives to prop up the value of other human lives that really makes problems in my conscience. These children have to lead the lives they do because other people feel the need to have lots and lots of cheap, attractive clothing to look good all the time.

I wonder how it would feel to ackowledge that we are all interdependent, that the person who makes our clothes and cuts our grass and delivers our food is as necessary and valuable as the person who heals our illnesses, defends us against injustice and invents our electronic amusements. Tradition and culture create the imbalance, not any fact of effort or intelligence.

But I must wake up now and get ready to work. Some children are depending on me to teach them.

[chris]

This sudden obsession with sweat-shop labor in India, including claims that children had oily rags stuck into their mouths and were hit with rubber hoses is reaching comical levels.

First, why is The Gap, a retail clothing chain, also expected to function as the International Labor Police?

Second, how does anyone know the claims of oily rags in mouths and beatings with rubber pipes are true?

Frankly, given the Dickensian atmosphere infusing the story, why would shop managers bother with rubber pipes? Why not simply slapping the kids, or punching them?

That aside, India is a rapidly evolving country. The advent of democracy and capitalism have begun to work as predicted. Every backward nation should follow the path broken by India. Far from perfect, but heading the right way.

Amazingly, critics at this site seem to think the US can determine and set labor laws in other countries.

Okay. Try this. How about those millions of muslim females who weave those rugs for which the middle east is famous? For the most part, they are paid NOTHING.

If they had the opportunity, they'd move to India and take the jobs in those factories supplying The Gap. If they were allowed that much freedom. But they're not.

Meanwhile, islamic law permits wife-beating.

Moreover, much US clothing is stitched together or manufactured in backwards parts of the world. The tags in my shirts list Pakistan, Malaysia, Thailand, India, Vietnam, Bangladesh, El Salvador and Mongolia. Those are only a few of the world's textile hot-spots.

Those are countries that still suffer from a lack of clean drinking water, where kids die from diseases and hazards long gone from the US scene. Whether anyone cares to admit it or not, these lousy jobs are a start.

But unless the countries in which these textile-makers operate are headed toward democracy and capitalism, it's not possible for Americans to discipline them over abusive labor practices.

The truth of this should be evident in the example of Cuba. The island prison has been made vastly poorer because the US does no business with the Castro brothers.

It's clear that Fidel's communism would evaporate if American wealth entered the Cuban economy. We've isolated Cuba for over 45 years, but the marxist paradise has lived on, barely, while its dictator refused to allow the changes that would give every Cuban a good life.

Either we kill the dictators or we open trade, or both. But taking away jobs from the people who need them most is cruel. Moreover, in The Gap case, yanking jobs from poor children in India serves the interests of labor in the US. The last people to benefit are those kids who are tossed back in the street.

By the way, many of the world's poorest coutries are the sources of children used for sexual purposes. It's reasonable to think that a child working long hours for The Gap in a third-world country is unlikely to moonlight in a less savory work environment.

[Anarcissie]

chris: '... By the way, many of the world's poorest coutries are the sources of children used for sexual purposes. It's reasonable to think that a child working long hours for The Gap in a third-world country is unlikely to moonlight in a less savory work environment.'

I don't know why you say that. Children are pretty weak, socially and politically, and we live in a world where the strong use the weak and the weak use the weaker. One can use children for factory work _and_ sex. Those rubber pipes and oily rags could provide silence and compliance for more than one kind of service.

The problem with child labor (factory or sexual) is that it's non-voluntary. Non-voluntary labor is slavery. As Mr. Lincoln said, if slavery isn't wrong then nothing is wrong. We happy Americans probably don't have to worry about using Asian children sexually unless we travel to Asia -- well, there _are_ certain kinds of pornographic movies, a kind of indirect use -- but we do have the question of whether we want our fine, hip duds to be made by slaves. Seven-year-old slaves. No doubt many would answer, "Yeah, WTF, whatever." But some wouldn't.

In any case I don't buy this "If we don't slave 'em for the clothes someone will slave 'em for worse." Every crime stands by itself.

[Monica]

If child labor is banned, children still don't have a choice whether they want to work or not. It's just that they are forced not to work regardless of what they may need or prefer. That may also push a certain amount of work underground, under worse conditions and at lower wages, and make children feel that law enforcement authorities are their enemies.

Many children actually prefer to work in order to help their families and/or get pocket money. You may say that this choice is not truly voluntary. But if you think of it, neither is school attendance and doing homework, which is even closer to slavery because there is no remuneration and the law may actually force children to attend school, whereas it does not force them to work. On the other hand, many adults work out of economic necessity, so their choice whether to work or not is not free either. It is true that slaves are not allowed to change jobs and employers, but child labour is considered evil even if the children are allowed to do that.

Children would be protected much better if the age of majority was lowered while maintaining their parents' obligation to support them if they are in school and/or making it easier for older children and teenagers to have their own source of income and the right to protect their property. I was just reading about a case where a legally minor but working person had her father pay for her computer but reimbursed him out of her own money and nevertheless the father sold her computer without her permission.

Whether they are physically adult or not, legally minor young people are treated like slaves, more so nowadays than when it was normal for older minors to escape the school system early and have jobs and families of their own. Now, even though most states have lowered their age of majority, young people are made helpless and are disempowered to the point of not being able to have one drink until three years after the age of majority. Therefore, if any country is more lax about this kind of systemic disempowerment of their young citizens, by allowing them to work or not enforcing child labour bans too strictly, this is actually a good thing. In fact, our yong children and the more progressive adults should probably try to bring about laws to put some economic power in childrens' and teenagers' hands, even if that includes allowing them to work more or at a younger age.

[chris]

anarcissie, you wrote:

"Children are pretty weak, socially and politically, and we live in a world where the strong use the weak and the weak use the weaker."

There's only so much America can do about the global problems of poverty and the misery related to exploitation.

You wrote:

"One can use children for factory work _and_ sex."

Well, anything is possible. But I'm willing to bet that toiling for a clothing company precludes sex work for children.

You wrote:

"Those rubber pipes and oily rags could provide silence and compliance for more than one kind of service."

That's cheap melodrama that appeals to an American mindset. When kids are uncooperative the most frequently used weapon of coercion is the hand or fist.

You wrote:

"The problem with child labor (factory or sexual) is that it's non-voluntary."

Many aspects of childhood involve non-voluntary participation by the kids.

You wrote:

"Non-voluntary labor is slavery."

Not quite. The kids are paid. Big difference.

You wrote:

"As Mr. Lincoln said, if slavery isn't wrong then nothing is wrong."

True. But we're not talking about America or other leading nations. We're talking about the process of emerging from a relatively primitive state and moving toward modernity. No matter what Americans want to believe, it's a slow process. But the path has been made.

You wrote:

"We happy Americans probably don't have to worry about using Asian children sexually unless we travel to Asia -- well, there _are_ certain kinds of pornographic movies, a kind of indirect use --"

Your comment suggests that demand for such services is high and that "happy Americans" have easy access to kids for sex.

You wrote:

"...but we do have the question of whether we want our fine, hip duds to be made by slaves."

The workers are paid, and if America can influence these emerging countries, America can speed the advance to the point that child labor is no longer part of the culture.

You wrote:

"In any case I don't buy this "If we don't slave 'em for the clothes someone will slave 'em for worse." Every crime stands by itself."

Yeah. Sure. Take a trip to Africa. There are almost 800 million people on the continent, and most of them would jump for one of those jobs at The Gap factories. But for a lot of reasons, there are not many clothing factories in most of Africa. It's the dictator problem.

[Hattie]

Wow. Do any of you people who think child labor is grand have kids or grandkids?

[The Eternal Squire]

If you think poverty is bad, try boredom: it's worse. For the last two years I have not be ALLOWED to work, because no one would hire me. The only thing left for me to do is clean the house, cook the meals, and pretend to be cheerful for the sake of my child and for my wife who works. But where no one is seeing, I am slowly dying inside.

The Eternal Squire

[Anarcissie]

Maybe you could start some kind of business.

[Anarcissie]

chris -- you can use words whatever way you wish, but in my book when a person is coerced into non-voluntary labor as a regular condition of life, that person is a slave and is performing slave labor.

If slave labor is made profitable it will be continued and extended. However, it is not really a very good thing for capitalism, in spite of the immediate profits, because ultimately capitalism depends on people being able to make enough money to buy the stuff they make and consume it -- or at least, enough to be taxed for the latest war. Slaves don't make that kind of money. In fact, in the case of the children, their power is so small most of them may well never see it at all.

[Monica]

At least, you are free. I realize that your financial means may not allow you to enjoy your freedom to the fullest extent, but there are all kinds of things you can do. For instance, you could read books at the library (assuming you can't afford your own). You can spend time with friends. You can learn something that interests you, such as a language. Since you have Internet access, you may be able to find that for free on the Internet. If this is legal in your state, you could homeschool your child. You could become a really great cook and learn various crafts, such as knitting and sewing, to spend time and depend less on commercially-made products. You can get your own business selling said crafts, or find some other way to sell your skills, but not as an employee. There may be some business opportunity you haven't thought of. Some lady made a business out of Al-Queda propaganda, which she is translating into English (of course, for the English-speaking public, not for Al-Queda). Some Eastern European villagers are making traditional lace for underwear and sexy blouses. I paid $45 for a crocheted snood with beads (not from them). You should see how expensive some Peruvian products are. There is a company called Peruvian Connection where bangles covered in fabric are very expensive (those I have are $59 apiece, but some are even more expensive).

Having to waste your life working for someone else is much worse. You have the opportunity to actually choose what to do.

[chris]

anarcissie, you wrote:

"If slave labor is made profitable it will be continued and extended."

Slave labor is not profitable. Thus, your "if, then" statement is nullified.

You added:

"However, it is not really a very good thing for capitalism..."

Since slavery is not a profitable practice, it is a priori not good for capitalism.

You wrote:

"...in spite of the immediate profits, because ultimately capitalism depends on people being able to make enough money to buy the stuff they make and consume it..."

You've completed your own argumentative circle. Slavery bad -- capitalism good.

Let me know how you think the US should go about eradicating abject poverty in the world, this world with its dictators who are the leading cause of poverty.

[Andrea]

Nope, I don't have kids, whoever asked, but I teach. Many of my students have part-time jobs. They are scolded when they make mistakes or prove unreliable. None of them are beaten, however. The beatings are the part I find objectionable. True, it would be easier to actually hit a child with a fist or an open palm, but it's ultimately more efficient to do something truly frightening to one child and have the rest go in fear of it than to deal out spankings all day long. Hence, thrashing one slow child soundly with the rubber hose and then carrying the rubber hose about with you will ensure that you spend less time thrashing and more time seeing that quotas are met.

So, no, I don't actually know that the children are being beaten with rubber hoses. I just know that it makes more sense that they would be than some people are willing to believe.

So what's my point? Maybe that there ought to be a distinction drawn between "juveniles who work under acceptable conditions" and "children who are abused and exploited in unacceptable working conditions". If children in all parts of the world had the opportunity to attend school and also to work some hours for extra pay that will help their families, under conditions that are not abusive and do not preclude opportunities to do things other than low-wage-long-hour work, well then, there might not be such outcry.

[tjulianc]

Chris you write:
Yeah. Sure. Take a trip to Africa. There are almost 800 million people on the continent, and most of them would jump for one of those jobs at The Gap factories. But for a lot of reasons, there are not many clothing factories in most of Africa. It's the dictator problem.

Congratulations! You found people the textile industry doesn't exploit. Guess what? Ehrenreich's blog wasn't about African people. Try sticking to the argument and not using a red herring every time you can't find a better argument. Just because a company doesn't exploit a certain population, doesn't mean that wouldn't if they could. The diamond industry does a fine job there. But we aren't discussing that are we?

You also write:

But we're not talking about America or other leading nations. We're talking about the process of emerging from a relatively primitive state and moving toward modernity. No matter what Americans want to believe, it's a slow process. But the path has been made.

What is a "relatively primitive state"? India has nuclear weapons. Do you consider nuclear weapons primitive? Maybe you mean India is relatively primitive because they haven't used nuclear weapons on another country yet? India is a country that was ruled by the British Empire for almost a hundred years, and is home to some of the oldest scripts and religions in the world. India actually peacefully won its independence from the British Empire with the help of Gandhi. I would argue they are not primitive. Just Massively exploited by Western Empires for the last 200 years. There is a huge disparity between rich and poor, due to the caste system there as well. You should check out some of National Geographic's work on it, it is quite good. I think US and other global companies exploiting this caste system to increase profit is immoral to say the least. And why do Global companies have a responsibility to influence change? It is because they are exploiting the people who work for them. Paying them very low wages just because they are destitute, and in some cases, as Ehrenreich has pointed out, causing human suffering. Don't say there suffering isn't as bad as others, that is irrelevant. The question is "is The Gap gaining at the expense of human suffering?"

[Monica]

The problem with beatings is economic, because those kids need jobs and may feel they have no choice. It may also be related to the respect for authority and for adults in general.

Don't you think that a group of kids, especially if older, could just take away the rubber hose, even if the supervisor is fighting? Won't the fight itself be considered too much trouble, making beatings unproductive, if that's what the workers generally do? To eliminate beatings, all it takes is encouraging kids to have this kind of attitude. If they get fired and then other kids are like that, too, the practice will eventually be discontinued.

Is it used against physically strong but legally underage individuals, such as male teenagers? If it is not, that may have something to do with what is likely to happen to the supervisor in some dark alley if he doesn't smarten up. If some victims are just very docile, they don't have to be any more.

[Stargeezer]

chris,
As the US has been such a failure at eradicating abject poverty within its own borders the world might be a bit much to shoot for.
Stargeezer

[roger]

if you insist in comparing poverty in developing countries to poverty in the united states i would be perfectly comfortable in stating that the poor in the united states have standards of living far exceeding the poor in the developing world. the poor in new orleans were described as not having personal vehicles and this was the reason that they failed to escape hurricane katrina. that we can describe poverty as needing to rely on public transportation is elucidating.

[Larry In Lethbridge]

This is for Chris. You write like you are a world class authority on many subjects, but I am pretty conversant on international apparel manufacturing.

These situations in India happen on a regular basis and a host of other countries. It doesn't matter how many inspectors the GAP have, factory owners find ways to skirt the issues. Including beating kids.Happens all the time. I been to India and China Christo, and much of the poverty is due to the big fat American getting off the plane with a handful of PO's asking "who wants an order "?

You don't know what you are taking about. Your an idiot.

[Justin K.]

Barbara, After spending a week watching my home state burn down (Southern California) and another week doing volunteer work. I was so happy to get back to reading your blog. But after reading your blog I'm right back to being sad again. Child labor is such a said thing. As far as I'm concerned, Child labor is child abuse! I don't care what any one says in the comments part of this blog. It's wrong. Good work Barbara. You rock.

[rshahad]

Perhaps Congress can change the laws on producing U.S. goods in foreign countries. We all know why U.S. businesses outsource their labor to foreign countries...cheap labor. Why not make it hit them where it hurts, by making them pay high tariffs on U.S. goods made outside of the country?

[barbsright]

Eternal Squire, I can relate. There are a lot of men in your situation today. It is the sense of being rejected by society that is most painful. I went to a support group for guys who were 'at loose ends' and most, like me, were left-handed. Even the psychologist!!! Either you win big with being left-handedness (Jerry Seinfeld) or you lose big, it seems. But that appears to be how life works today!!! Just be glad you have a wife who loves you. I know an unemployed divorced guy who lives at home with his mother, and another guy who is unemployed and has always being single.

[Anarcissie]

chris -- in answer to your last question, I think one thing the U.S. and other theoretically rights-observant states could do is insist that free trade can take place only between free, that is, rights-observant, countries -- countries where the workers have the right to move around, communicate, take or quit jobs, associate, organize, and keep at least personal possessions like their own means of production. Others would have to pay tariffs in line with the wealth stolen from the workers who produced it. This would make servitude and oppression far less attractive.

Of course, even in the capitalist paradise of the United States people don't always have all these rights. I was amused to see that some Mexican organizations have complained about North Carolina's "right-to-work" laws, which of course violate the fundamental rights of association, speech and contract. But I think in general my idea would be a good basic principle.

The has been something of a debate as to whether slavery and other forms of coercion can be profitable. Antebellum capitalists in the Old South seem to have employed slave workers profitably. However I think in the longer run capitalism cannot work without a working class who also work at consuming, which of course they can only do if they are free. (Well, I suppose you could compel slaves to buy SUVs.... "Tote that barge! Lift that bale! Buy that car!)

[chris]

larry in lethbridge, you wrote:

"These situations in India happen on a regular basis and a host of other countries."

Wow. You're really up on the news, larry.

You wrote:

"It doesn't matter how many inspectors the GAP have, factory owners find ways to skirt the issues. Including beating kids."

In other words, based on your claim, there's little reason to blame the GAP for the actions of factory owners. If they are shrewdly hiding their abuses from inspectors, GAP is not the source of problems. The lying factory owners are. That's a problem for the local government. The GAP does not operate a criminal prosecution department or a labor-law division.

You wrote:

"Happens all the time. I been to India and China Christo, and much of the poverty is due to the big fat American getting off the plane with a handful of PO's asking "who wants an order "?"

Oh. This is where your genius really stands out. You are claiming that poverty is CAUSED by the PURCHASE of goods in low-cost labor markets. Hence, you are claiming that prosperity would result from FEWER American orders. That means you believe ZERO business from America is the best idea of all.

If genius like yours is abundant in Canada, your nation is in trouble.

[chris]

tjulianc, you wrote:

"What is a "relatively primitive state"? India has nuclear weapons. Do you consider nuclear weapons primitive?"

Another scatterbrain heard from. The weaponry possessed by a government has no connection to the living standards of its citizens except to demonstrate spending priorities.

Hundreds of millions of Indians live in squalor. However, the standard of living for the country is rising. Even though life in India is improving, hundreds of millions endure poverty that is orders of magnitude worse than the worst poverty in the US.

You wrote:

"India is a country that was ruled by the British Empire for almost a hundred years, and is home to some of the oldest scripts and religions in the world."

The Indians should thank the British every day for pointing them in the right direction and then turning over the controls to the locals.

You wrote:

"India actually peacefully won its independence from the British Empire with the help of Gandhi."

In other words, you believe it is possible for Westerners to succeed at planting the seeds of democracy and capitalism in a country where those ideas were once anathema. It's a good sign that you admit Western guidance and control is a good thing.

YOu wrote:

"I would argue they are not primitive. Just Massively exploited by Western Empires for the last 200 years."

In other words, left alone the Indians could have continued to wash in the Ganges, defecate in the Ganges, drink from the Ganges, contract malaria from the Ganges and die alarmingly young. Apparently you see that as a better alternative to the current direction of India.

You wrote:

"There is a huge disparity between rich and poor, due to the caste system there as well."

Now you are back to your scatterbrained nonsense. The caste system is a matter of the Hindu religion. It existed long before the Brits arrived.

Are you blaming the Brits for failing to end the caste system? Seems that way.

You wrote:

"I think US and other global companies exploiting this caste system to increase profit is immoral to say the least."

The Indian government has always demanded a majority ownership stake in foreign manufacturers operating in India. Thus, when Union Carbide operated its plant in Bhopal back in 1985, the plant was 51% Indian owned. The failure of the Indian government to maintain rational safety standards led to 2,500 deaths when the plant leaked poison gas.

You wrote:

"And why do Global companies have a responsibility to influence change? It is because they are exploiting the people who work for them."

This is laughable. If a company offers wages to prospective workers and people appear at the hiring office to accept those wages, the wages are acceptable to the workers. Thus, by their own willingness to accept the offered wages, the workers prove they are not exploited. A crappy job beast no job, especially in India.

You wrote:

"Paying them very low wages just because they are destitute, and in some cases, as Ehrenreich has pointed out, causing human suffering."

People are paid wages that reflect their productivity. It is no secret that manufacturing costs in many countries are lower than costs in leading nations because countries like India do not saddle manufacturers with expensive safety costs that OSHA laws impose here.

Meanwhile, businesses have ZERO obligation to seek opportunities in poor countries. Their only obligation is to their own bottom line.

It's remarkable that many Americans are incensed when they believe corporations are influencing the election process. Too many Americans see corporate power in government as a bad thing.

But, when the same companies operate in foreign countries, there is a complete flip-flop on this issue. Suddenly those corporations are expected to coerce the host governments and cause them to care more for the poor citizens of those host countries. Ridiculous.

You wrote:

"Don't say there suffering isn't as bad as others, that is irrelevant."

I see. The poorest Americans have enough food. There is an obesity problem among the poor. As a resident of New York City, I can tell you I see FAT, big fat round homeless people in this city.

The only starving people in NYC are anorexic models.

Despite press claims to the contrary, homelessness is a minor problem. For the homeless, there are shelters. In other words, most people who spend nights without a roof over their heads do so by choice. Mostly, they are nuts.

That's not the case in India, where vast social problems afflict people in ways that simply do not exist here. In other words, the cure is more capitalism and more democracy. The sooner you grasp the obvious, the better.

You wrote:

"The question is "is The Gap gaining at the expense of human suffering?""

Like most screwballs, you have a dyslexic handle on this.

The correct question is "how much improvement in the human condition in poor nations has followed from the arrival of The GAP?

Then you should examine the government of the poor nation. That's all it takes to identify the culprit. Unfree countries are poor and free countries experience growing prosperity.

[chris]

Anarcissie, you wrote:

"...in answer to your last question, I think one thing the U.S. and other theoretically rights-observant states could do is INSIST that free trade can take place only between free, that is, rights-observant, countries -- countries where the workers have the right to move around, communicate, take or quit jobs, associate, organize, and keep at least personal possessions like their own means of production."

Insist? You think some countries should INSIST. What does that mean?

"We INSIST", said President Kucinich.

"We choose to ignore your insistence" said China's Premier Wen Jiabao and President Hu Jintao.

Good luck.

You wrote:

"Others would have to pay tariffs in line with the wealth stolen from the workers who produced it."

Ah. In other words, American labor unions would control US trade relations. Yeah, that's a brilliant idea.

You wrote:

"This would make servitude and oppression far less attractive."

There's always a nation happy to serve as a mail-drop for exports. The islamic countries depend on it. They are happy to buy crap from anywhere and re-sell it to anyone, thereby "laundering" the point of origin of many products.

[Anarcissie]

chris -- "Insist on" means make trade laws according to. China appears to be still quite subservient to American policy and interests, lending the moronic, wasteful US government a billion dollars a day at interest rates below the true inflation rate.

Shipping through third countries adds cost, so it has the same effect as a tariff.

The crack about labor unions is completely mysterious to me.

But -- it's up to you. If you want to buy stolen goods, which is what cheap stuff is when it's made by slaves, serfs or whatever you call tyrannized people, there is nothing I can do about it. I have noticed before now that the principles of capitalism fans, so tough when it comes to Welfare, seem to be pretty thin in this area, so your attitude is no surprise.

At some point in the future, as the US continues to decline in relative wealth and power, all this will become academic, but at least we could do the right thing in the present instead of disgracing ourselves, and leave something besides a shameful record to our descendants. Fat chance.

[roger]

risking the possibility of seeming presumptuous let me wade into the conversation.

"If you want to buy stolen goods, which is what cheap stuff is when it's made by slaves, serfs or whatever you call tyrannized people, there is nothing I can do about it."

the question is whether the goods which result from labor in the developing world is theft from the persons who produced it or if the regulatory structure in the country in question is failing. let me render a further example:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/3558527.stm

now who is responsible for the conditions in which these persons, including children, are working. is theft the accurate term and is this an adequate and encompassing example of capitalism. is it appropriate to hold construction companies in this country which are consumers of steel responsible for these conditions. i am not convinced that the question can be reduced to allegations of evil deeds effectuated in the name of capitalism.

[Larry In Lethbridge]

Chris kicks in : " That means you believe ZERO business from America is the best idea of all."

I think you missed a few parts along the way. You leap at the opportunity to exonerate the GAP as they are being accused of non compliancy. Why? You like to argue with people no matter if you are right or wrong.

The fact is that the GAP knows this stuff happens. They could care less if if a kid gets beaten or anyone is exploited. They could claim to have have a thousand inspectors on the ground in India or other parts of Asia.
It is common knowledge that once inspectors leave a premise in say India, it is open season on the workers. The inpsectors know this. DO you think the GAP cares ? Not a chance. As long asthey get their goods on time at cheap prices, and they make money, leave it there.

It is because of lardasses like you that need $21.00 khaki shorts that these practices are overlooked by the GAP. You should be ashamed.

Your logic is starting to get really watered down.What is wrong with you ? Tired of arguing incessantly with people ?

[roger]

"It is because of lardasses like you that need $21.00 khaki shorts that these practices are overlooked by the GAP."

again is the reason that children are beaten at the clothing factory or injured at the shipyard because the west is avaricious or is it because the govt in which the industry takes place is corrupt or because the company that produces the product is shameless or because the individual factory is run like a plantation.

how much leverage does the steel importer or the clothing importer have.

[chris]

larry in abridgedmentalstate says:

"The fact is that the GAP knows this stuff happens."

The whole world knows worker exploitation occurs. You're really up on the news, larry.

You wrote:

"They could care less if if a kid gets beaten or anyone is exploited."

Have you gotten this claim from a credible source? Or is it something that fell out of your head?

You wrote:

"They could claim to have have a thousand inspectors on the ground in India or other parts of Asia."

I believe the number of inspectors mentioned in the article was 90. By the way, do they carry guns? Are they deputized members of law enforcement? Or just guys trying to do a job even though they possess no real power?

You wrote:

"It is common knowledge that once inspectors leave a premise in say India, it is open season on the workers. The inpsectors know this."

In other words, if you want to control the manufacturing process, you have to own the facility, which GAP does not. Thus, the company's enforcement powers are limited to purchase orders.

You wrote:

"DO you think the GAP cares ? Not a chance. As long asthey get their goods on time at cheap prices, and they make money, leave it there."

You are yet another moron who thinks labor problems in other countries are caused by the US.

Naturally, no such problems are caused by Canadian companies, because Canada has so few of them. There is no Canadian GAP equivalent, but there are plenty of GAP stores in Canada.

You wrote:

"It is because of lardasses like you that need $21.00 khaki shorts that these practices are overlooked by the GAP. You should be ashamed."

GAP operates over 3100 stores worldwide. About 2800 are in North America. About 280 are in Canada. Thus, larry, your fellow Canadians enjoy GAP products as much as Americans.

As far as lardass-ness goes, based on previous comments you've made, both you and your wife are obese and probably can't find anything large enough to shroud those jiggling figures at the GAP. You might check Home Depot in the tarpaulin or canvas drop-cloth department.

As for me, I do own some GAP clothing. I also own stuff bearing lables like Brooks Brothers, LL Bean and J Crew. The labels show the goods were manufactured in Asia, Central America and the middle east. What of it?

I wonder how many other nations in the world form the markets for goods manufactured in these countries of loose, unenforced labor laws? If I were to believe you, the only miscreant is the US.

Any chance Canada will send the Mounties over to India to clean up the textile business there?

[Larry in Lethbridge]

Chris proudly smirks to himself as he thinks he hit another homerun at Barb's latest blog entry says :"You are yet another moron who thinks labor problems in other countries are caused by the US.

No Chris, labour problems are the individual countries problems, but many issues are magnified when John Q. American shows up making promises of untold wealth and partnership and slowly but surely starts squeezing the poor guy's nuts. "Lower , lower, you must go lower Omar . Or I shop elsewhere".

Actually I wouldn't expect you to know too much on this area as apparel manufacturing in Coeur D'Alene isn't a booming business, nor it is all that viable in the USA in it's present state. And you can't become expert overnite by reading a book .

You do get a base hit with this : "Thus, larry, your fellow Canadians enjoy GAP products as much as Americans ".

Maybe, but you forgot to mention the HBC Company. That I think is our all time favourite. Incorporated in 1659 ? Huge for over 350 yrs. The GAP has way to go before it unseats the HBC.

This had me close to tears though :" both you and your wife are obese and probably can't find anything large enough to shroud those jiggling figures at the GAP ".

My wife makes out with a mens' 2X. We do have to go the US as GAP sizes in Canada run much smaller. Often CDN GAP store fall off at Size XL. Failing that, we head for Mark's Work Wearhouse, another CDN institution. Always find gargantuan sizes there.

Good point made by you, another hit : "If I were to believe you, the only miscreant is the US " .

Not always Christo. In many cases, behemoth companies like the GAP will only place an order with you if you remain exclusive to them, but the mentality of bullying your contractor is always evident. Smart Indian textile companies are telling US companies to rub salt. They will only serve Euro interests. European's pay more for quality goods. I hear this regularly when I travel to Asia and when our Indian agents learn of yet another US company trying to play big box retailer. I should point out that Canada has some real jerk clothing companies. The hosers at Roots Canada come immediately to mind.

Not sure what this was about though:" Any chance Canada will send the Mounties over to India to clean up the textile business there? "
I'll ask the RCMP commissioner about this next time we go bowling. It could be a solution. We have been asked many times to clean up others messes.

I'll get right on it.

[chris]

Anarcissie, you wrote:

"The has been something of a debate as to whether slavery and other forms of coercion can be profitable."

There is no debate on this topic. Slavery is an economic failure. The most recent example -- nazi Germany -- is a stark example of what happens to an advanced nation that enslaves a portion of its citizenry.

You wrote:

"Antebellum capitalists in the Old South seem to have employed slave workers profitably."

Wrong. The South was failing economically and maintaining slavery was a chief component of its decline. The labor question arises for every business. Is it cheaper to pay human laborers? Or is it cheaper to buy a machine that does the same work? John Henry versus the steam-driven pile driver?

Or, in the case of slavery, is it cheaper to BUY a human machine rather than PAY wages to laborers. Slave owners chose to BUY human machines which required feeding, clothing and shelter. The maintenance costs of slaves and slave ownership might have been low, but the costs were not zero.

It has been estimated that the return-on-investment in slaves was at best, about 10%. In other words, good enough to sustain the practice, but not a high return.

As even Margaret Mitchell noted, speaking through Rhett Butler in Gone With the Wind, the South would lose the Civil War because it had no factories and no capacity to wage a sustained war. It lacked sufficient railroads and was not industrialized. The South could not protect itself from cotton produced in other regions of the world. It had staked itself on farming and trading.

Moreover, even if the Civil War had not been fought and slavery were to have remained, the mechanization of farming would have killed it. The rise of unions would have had the same effect.

You wrote:

"However I think in the longer run capitalism cannot work without a working class who also work at consuming, which of course they can only do if they are free."

Yes, capitalist states depends on consumption. But that's the case for all states unless by some accident of geography or geology a state possesses a thing of value to many others in the world. Like oil or a shortcut between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. But even the Panama Canal was a gift from capitalists.

[Larry In Lethbridge]

Ah Chris, any chance you might be publishing a book on any of these topics you seem so knowlegable and adept at ?

I am so simply amazed at the breadth of wisdom you dispense .

[chris]

larry in lethbridge, you wrote:

"Maybe, but you forgot to mention the HBC Company. That I think is our all time favourite. Incorporated in 1659 ? Huge for over 350 yrs. The GAP has way to go before it unseats the HBC."

Maybe the news is slow getting to your isolated little Canadian hamlet, but Hudson's Bay Company is owned by an American Investment firm.

Meanwhile, in its last year as an independent company, HBC recorded revenue of about $7 billion. That's less than half the revenue reported by The Gap for the same year.

While HBC may have a larger share of the Canadian market than The Gap, HBC is a smaller operation. Meanwhile, it is also a money loser. Prior to its takeover, it was in the red.

[Anarcissie]

roger -- in regard to the Indian ship wreckers, and the like: I am not really interested in affixing blame. In the case of India, the freedom of the workers is somewhat compromised by the caste system, remanants of feudalism, and ethnic rivalry. But I believe they are free to move about, take different jobs, organize, speak, and vote. If those conditions exist, the normal processes of capitalism will raise the wages of the workers rapidly, which in fact is what is now happening, I believe. The only way workers' wages can be kept down in a capitalist context is by oppression, for instance, by making unions illegal or seriously disadvantaging them, or by keeping people from moving to better jobs (for example, the old internal passport systems in South Africa or the Soviet Union). There are also cultures in which the subjection, oppression and exploitation of women and children, including economic exploitation, is approved and widely practiced.

It is not up to the US or the other developed countries to regulate conditions in other places, but it is reasonable to restrict trade with those who extract labor under conditions of oppression, since their products are to some extent stolen goods.

[LArry in Lethbridge]

Chris after a few hours online scouring the financial records of CDN commercial entities declares:"Maybe the news is slow getting to your isolated little Canadian hamlet, but Hudson's Bay Company is owned by an American Investment firm".

Yeah HBC is owned by a guy called Zuckerman. Your as sharp as a ball of wax aren't you?

Just because GAP is larger doesn't mean it will be embraced so warmly. Can you buy HBC blankets at GAP.NO!!! But I do hear that GAP, under the direction of a CDN CEO did finally post some positive figures after 2 years of sucking wind.

Not only are a social commentator extraordinaire, but you are showing signs of financial guru levels.

You must a hoot to hang out with .

[chris]

larry left alone on the bridge:

IBM is buying Cognos, which, in the likely event that you don't know, is based in Ottawa. The deal was announced this morning. Fifty-eight bucks a share in cash. Five billion dollars in total. Should work out well for IBM.

[Larry In Lethbridge]

Ah Chris thanks for sharing that little tidbit.

Jeez there are so many little software makers in Nepean ( in the likely event that you don't know, it a suburb of Ottawa)this hardly causes a stir anymore.
Heck we were glad some sap from the USA got saddled with Corel, we rejoiced and declared a public holiday.

Oh Chris,

Anytime you find yourself in Alberta, I think I could find you some work. Casual fast food workers are making at least $15/hour ($14.08 USD HAHAHAHAHAHAHA)and at the very least i could get you a job at the local paper,fact checking.

I think I could snare you at least $18.00 /hr. What do you think ?

[CanadaKat]

As usual - please ignore Chris - he is just another apologist for all things American.

America good...everyone else bad...

such a troll

[CanadaKat]

To the excellent keyboardist who wrote:

"Too many Americans see corporate power in government as a bad thing."

Yes. And they should. Corporations are only accountable to themselves and their bottom line - exactly as they should be.

But in a democracy (is there still such a thing?)governance is accountable to it's population. This is not something a corporation is even remotely qualified for existing, as it always does, as a hierarchal (dictatorship)entity.

Any government that allows for exorbitant corporate donations to politicians, and extensive corporate lobbying, is corrupt from the get go.

Should be outlawed. Wanna get elected? Hump it like the rest of us.

[What the... ?]

What is wrong with the people who think that slave-labor (child labor is slave labor, pure and simple) is somehow better than unemployment?

Go to any of these Export Processing Zones, where all your possessions are being manufactured. Oh, wait- that's right! You can't actually enter these places, since armed guards prevent any unauthorized person from going in or coming out! (And don't think those guns aren't loaded, either.)

Why don't you sit down with a sweatshop factory worker, and ask them how wonderful their life is, after working double, triple, and sometimes several days-long shifts in unsafe and exploitative working conditions. Ask them how much they make. Then ask them how much they have to pay in housing, food, etc.; ask them how much money they have left over. Oh, that's right- you can't, since they're on the other side of the world, and you'd rather get drunk and stuff your faces on some cruise ship in the Bahamas for a week. (And, why is anywhere beyond the gates of your "island paradise" hotel resort a no-man's land?)

Most of these factory workers are young, teenage women; they can only work for 5-8 years, because the long-term stress on their bodies weakens them; then the factory managers fire them (no severance paakage, either) and hire a new batch of girls, from a near never-ending supply of desperate rural communities.

What's the actual percentage of sweatshop workers that actually ascend out of dire poverty? Where's the stepping stone to the middle class for these forgotten people?

What kind of perverted compassion considers being worked like an animal, beaten, sexually mistreated, and often cheated out of money, as some kind of route to prosperity? Show me one community where slave labor has broght up the standard of living, all by itself.

People seem to look at history with rose-colored glasses, and indulge in some fantasy that pure markets will solve the world's problems. Why does the West enjoy such high standards of living? Because generations of workers rallied together to fight for decent wages, days off, health insurance, and safe working conditions for over 200 years. And that free market only survived because of "Big Government" intrusion; though at the time it was called Regulation, Anti-Trust, Unemployment Insurance, Farm Subsidies, the Minimum Wage, and a host of laws passed to protect workers from being robbed while making other people filthy rich.

Many paid for our standard of living with their blood. Anyone remember the Shirtwaist Factory Fire or the Ludlow Massacre? Does the name, Joe Hill, ring any bells?

No, but we know which toilet-paper Oprah Winfrey uses to wipe her ass with.

And yes, the Gap probably knew exactly what their sub-sub-sub-sub-conractor's labor practices were; THAT'S WHY THEY WERE GIVEN THE CONTRACT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

The Gap is a brand, not a manufacturer. This way, they can charge an arm & a leg for clothes made for pennies overseas; they drove the cost of production waaaay down and get the cheapest price from a long line of sub-contactors to stitch their ugly shirts, which they then can then mark waaaay up for a tidy profit. (The other nice thing is that when they are caught committing crimes, everyone has a finger to point at, and virtual absolution for their own responsibility.)

Pardon my French, but this system is just plain FUCKED-UP.

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ugggg i dont understand how she can think of child labor as a "good" thing!! child labor is 100% tottallyy!! WRONG!!!!

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