Are Illegal Immigrants the Problem?

I’ve been reading with mixed feelings an exchange on this site’s Forum (under “Karma only for employed people?”) on the subject of illegal immigration. One contributor writes that “The first step is to deport the illegal aliens and those overstaying their visas. This should open up millions of jobs.” He – well, he says he’s a male in his mid-thirties – must have been watching Lou Dobbs’ strident series on “Our Broken Borders,” which blames about 50 percent our economic woes on illegal immigrants. Though to give Dobbs his due, he does pin the other 50 percent on “big corporations.”

I traveled across the US-Mexican border in November, and it didn’t seem too broken to me. Peer through the giant fence that runs right down to the Pacific Ocean in Tijuana and you see what looks like an armed encampment: That’s America, the “land of opportunity,” as viewed from the poorer parts of the world. On our way back north, it took us 50 minutes to make our way through the US border patrol, waiting in bumper-to-bumper traffic as gaunt peddlers, many carrying babies on their backs, went from car to car selling trinkets and snacks.

The amazing thing is that so many Mexicans (and other Latin Americans) risk the border crossing and the hostile culture of the United States – a fact you’re reminded of as soon as you enter California and see the first “human crossing” warning sign. These show a silhouetted family running together, reminding you that it’s parents and children, not deer, you’re likely to collide with just north of the border.

Now a study released late last week gives us a glimpse into the lives of one the biggest categories of illegal Latino immigrants – the day laborers who do jobs like construction, moving, and landscaping. According to this study, carried out by researchers at three major U.S. universities, about three-fourths of the day laborers in this country lack legal documents. Not surprisingly, they live miserably. Their median earnings are $700 a month, most have no access to health care, and half of them said they’d been stiffed by bosses at one time or another and gone unpaid for their work.

That’s what makes undocumented workers so attractive to unscrupulous U.S. employers: When you rip them off, they have no recourse at all. So my first, knee-jerk, response to Lou Dobbs et al. would be: If you don’t want undocumented immigrants competing with Americans for jobs, stop the exploitation of the immigrants and make sure they work under the same laws and regulations as anyone else.

The real shocker in the study is that 49 percent of the day laborers interviewed said they were regularly hired – not by contractors, companies of any kind, and certainly not “big corporations” – but by American homeowners. I’d just heard Bay Buchanan (sister of Pat) on Lou Dobbs’ show fulminating about the “big corporations” that are hiring all the illegal immigrants, but – surprise!—it’s the guy next door who needs his house painted or his lawn mowed.

So there’s a sickening level of hypocrisy here. In the last few years, we’ve seen anti-immigrant protests at day laborer hiring sites – street corners or, very often, Home Depot parking lots -- from Burbank CA to Suffolk County, Long Island. But how many of those righteous protestors have employed undocumented immigrants themselves –if not as construction and lawn workers, as nannies or maids?

But I do agree with our forum contributor when he writes: “I get very tired of ivory tower ‘professional’ types who dismiss the impact of these workers because they're just doing ‘jobs nobody else wants to do.’” There’s Jimmy, for example, a friend from Buffalo who hasn’t had steady employment since he was laid off from an auto plant in the 90s. Now he’s getting ready to move to South Florida where there’s still a shortage of workers to repair hurricane damage. His plan? Get a job at, or at least hang out at, Home Depot—where the pay is low and the possibilities of advancement are negligible -- so he can spotted by potential employers.

With the catastrophic lay-offs just announced by Ford, we can expect more American citizens to join the immigrants shaping up at Home Depot parking lots. They’ll have a choice: to treat the immigrants as competitors and enemies, or to band together with them, as co-workers, to fight for better wages and working conditions for all.

Of course, I hope they’ll choose the latter. One image haunts me from my border crossing in November: a thin brown man in tattered clothes trying to sell handmade wooden crosses to the Americans crawling along in their cars. He was carrying one of the larger ones on his back.

Comments

[Paul]

This comment has nothing specifically to do with your post, but is about low wage earners.

CBC is airing a 4-part series called China Rises. It premiered this past Sunday and one of the things that caught my attention was the fact that China is fast becoming a capitalist country. But in doing so, it is using many workers that came from the poorer country sides in their plants and factories. These workers seem 'happy' to work 12-hour days for 60 cents an hour. Because of this low wage, they have to share a room with 9 others. Yes, that is their home - a single room! It seems a shame to see this, but on the other hand, these workers seem happy as this life style is much better than they had on the farms in the country side.

Not sure if this series is available in the US, but here is a link to their site:
http://www.cbc.ca/chinarises/intro/index.html

Well worth the time to watch!

[mcsquared]

Thanks a lot for posting this.Would you mind posting the source of the study? I was distressed to see the forum people talk about illegal workers getting decent wages or gaining skills as if it were a bad thing. They just become the easy scapegoats. Though it's good that you tell Jimmy's story, thought "Maria"'s story was worth hearing too. Hired to move hogs from one pen to another, she was fired after receiving a severe bite from a hog which left her arm deeply scarred. As an illegal she had no recourse; apparently laws protect the hogs better than the workers. Now she's a union organizer, trying to improve factory conditions for all.

[CmdrSue]

I wandered around and found your blog after reading an excerpt of Bait and Switch on careerknowhow.com - funny, funny, but sad, stuff. I've added your blog to my blogroll.

In my book, illegal immigrants are not the problem. Bad economic and social policies are the problem. Bad educational systems are obviously a problem or more people would have noticed that the current policies ensure that the rich get richer while the poor get poorer.

[Laurie]

Perhaps a majority of Americans have "noticed that the current policies ensure that the rich get richer while the poor get poorer." Unfortunately, with wealth comes power and influence, and with poverty comes ostracism and "Will do what you wish for food" signs on the interstate. Not many of the affluent in this country are willing to stick their necks out for those who have so much less than they, and the voices of the lower class are simply stifled. It's the system in any capitalistic society. Nothing will change.

[Barbara E]

I haven't found the whole day laborer study on line (I used newspaper accounts) but you can find a summary at http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/issr/csup/resources/index.php

[David B]

The Edward R. Murrow documentary "Harvest of Shame" is a must-see for all Americans. What struck me was that all of the workers were white and black AMERICANS, not Mexican (or others). It seems there has been a "shift" to immigrants. I wonder what that says about America?

[theresa]

You're correct in saying the poor fellow waiting and waiting for work in front of the Home Depot is not a direct threat to the corporate attorney driving past, but the indirect effects can be found in the housing crunches seen when all affordable apartments become filled with our new workers, the shrinking pool of jobs in areas like construction for American kids not academically minded, and the increasing leverage businesses over their native pool of workers when the desperate immigrants appear. One need not marvel at this new development -- it's as least as old as "How Green Was My Valley" which pit the miners from one valley against those in the next whose mine had closed. These were all Welsh neighbors -- maybe even relatives -- so to consider only the racial differences in our current situation and deem them the source of the tensions is unfair.

Nonetheless, it is important to recall that these people did not run up here to ruin everyone's party, but because they too are the victims of a corrupt ruling class and government. Most are Mexicans and native to a country that has squandered all its resources and now looks to the US to provide an informal welfare system. Mexican business also took a hit when, after under cutting US bids, the Chinese did the same to them.

The American Middle Class is affected mainly by legal immigration rife with loopholes better known as L-1 and H1-B. These immigrants arrive mainly from India, Asia, and the Middle East and are prized not only for their lower pay scales, but their willingness to act anyway, and say anything their bosses demand. In this climate of personality over skill, such immigrants have had a brutal impact on middle-class job availability and work place quality. If an Indian or Asian is willing to work 100 hours a week, you'd better be too, and you'd better smile as you do so.

This is not to say there are no cultural tensions involved, but having grown up in immigrant enclaves and in living in one now (because that is all I can afford,) I have noticed that this recent bunch is different. They will not band together with underemployed Americans and demand higher wages. This new bunch will support the boss in all his endeavors and hope that this “loyalty” will get them a raise. The new immigrants will support the status quo, and right now, it is pretty ugly and often so are they. You will not see another ILGWU pop up in this milieu.

NAFTA and the CAFTA pretty much sealed our fate and what we are seeing (or being) is symptoms of the disease called globalization. In a few short years, America too has squandered its resources – mainly in manufacturing and technology. And yet, the long term effects remain to be seen – how will the illegal immigrant further burden, even with the best and most honorable intentions, a political situation that requires aggressive action by citizens. We can vote for immigration reform, but if the pool remains available and at a lucrative price, the immigrant becomes a hapless tool and a powerful weapon.

[A3K]

"She is the vice chair of the Democratic Socialists of America."

Amusing on so many levels.

[A3K]

"But how many of those righteous protestors have employed undocumented immigrants themselves –if not as construction and lawn workers, as nannies or maids?"

My guess is none. That's not hypocrisy, it's stupidity. If one were knowingly benefiting from cheap undocumented labor and simultaneously angrily protesting it, then one would have to be classified as a psychopath.

So Barb, if you have any evidence of people doing this, please bring it forward. Otherwise, keep your stupid speculation to yourself.

[A3K]

"NAFTA and the CAFTA pretty much sealed our fate and what we are seeing (or being) is symptoms of the disease called globalization."

What's your evidence for this claim? NAFTA was passed in 1993. We've got more than a decade's worth of experience with it under our belts. Has the standard of living in the US dropped? No. NAFTA encouraged more trade with the benefits accruing to more people.

For all the jobs destroyed by "globalization" more are created to replace them. Usually jobs that are less back-breaking and better paying. The only thing keeping us from fully enjoying the benefits of globalization are the sclerotic socialist schools we send our children to which actually stand in the way of our population becoming well educated.

"In a few short years, America too has squandered its resources – mainly in manufacturing and technology."

Blah blah blah. Give us a real deadline with a quantifiable consequence that we're supposed to be afraid of. Then when your prediction fails to come true, please have the decency to abandon the failed teachings of socialist theory or at least modify your views to reflect what you learned.

[Hattue]

A3K: What are you doing here?

[Hattie]

Sorry. Change my name.

[A3K]

Hattie,

Commenting on Barb's blog entries and one of the comments posted here. And you?

Did you have any thoughts on what I said? Any thoughts on what Barb has written? Any thoughts on what others have written about Barb's thoughts?

Do share.

[A3K]

BTW, Hattie, I found my way to Barb's blog purely by accident. I followed a link to something where I found an article which looked interesting which led me to something Barb wrote in "The Progressive" which led me to this blog.

I consider Barb's opinions to be terribly mis-informed and after remembering her writings when I was a subscriber to "Time" and she was a columnist for that publication, it struck me as humorous to learn that she's a "vice chair" of a socialist political organization.

When I checked out the website of that socialist organization and read what they say about themselves I had a complex response. First, I wondered, "What's wrong with these morons?" Then I wondered if other people read their self-descriptions the same way I did.

I mean if you read their arguments, the group says they are essentially incrementalists, but all of the final destinations that they say they favor sound like totalitarian horrors. To enforce the sort of "just" society they envision, a lot of people would have to be killed or jailed. It's happened that way everywhere that folks sharing that vision have achieved power.

Have you read the pdf that describes that group's views? Were you able to hold your lunch?

[Hattie]

You certainly are prolific, A3K.

[A3K]

There were direct questions in my response to you. See how that works? You ask a question. I answer. Then I ask follow-ups of you.

Feel free to be prolific yourself.

[Hattie]

I really think calling Barbara's observations "stupid" is what set me off, Andre 3000. That's name-calling where I come from. (I confess to using that word to describe Bush's verbal emanations, as for example, yesterday's State of the Union speech even though I know it's more that he thinks we, the masses, are stupid.) And suggesting that she silence herself is a red flag to me. Why do you believe she has no right to report her findings to us?

[A3K]

"Why do you believe she has no right to report her findings to us?"

The offending comment was not a finding. If she has findings, report away. Where she's simply expressing her own bias and attributing that to people she's not met and has no evidence to support her speculation, it is a stupid thing she's doing.

One would expect more from such an acclaimed writer. Do you expect more from her?

[Terry Mitchell]

They are not THE problem, but they are A problem. I wonder part of "illegal" people don't understand.

[Edward J. Szewczyk]

I think the Democratic Party should put together a program for rebuilding our industrial base and expanding American jobs, calling it "Project America," "Work for America," or some other catchy name. It would include controlling our borders and keeping illegal immigrants, note that I said ILLEGAL immigrants, out of the country, imposing and enforcing laws against hiring illegal immigrants, greatly restricting the issuance of L-1 and H-1B visas, which are used to screw Americans out of jobs, raising the minimum wage, penalizing as much as legally possible corporations which outsource or offshore jobs, adopting a system of national health insurance, fair (not free) trade, repealing or amending NAFTA and CAFTA, and funding education, job retraining, research and development and other measures designed to create good jobs for Americans and to strengthen and expand the middle class. If right-wingers, Bush's base, and so-called free traders cry "protectionism" or "class warfare," let 'em. I bet a Democratic Presidential candidate backing such a program would easily be elected, so long as he or she had the cojones to withstand the slings and arrows of our self-appointed cultural elites from both sides of the political spectrum. Such a candidate would also have to do without the corporate largesse which keeps most of our courageous politicians housebroken and in line.

[W.]

The sad truth is that (modern-day) Liberalism, by its very nature, depends upon a battle between the social classes. As the self-proclaimed opposition party, the Democrats have chosen to ignore mainstream America. In an attempt to rewrite history, they present -- time and time again, the same, washed up, re-hashed Marxist babble. The consequences are immeasurable. Ignoring past experience, they have refused to concede defeat in the war on poverty. Yet Ms. Ehrenreich continues to promote these retarded ideas. UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!?! SOCIALISM-- AS A SOLUTION???!!!
That's like banging your head against a brick wall over, and over again, expecting a different result each time. These Trotskyite bastards are trying to KILL us all! In her jaded, uncompromising stance, she has chosen to remain a stagnant, disgruntled observer. And angry femin-nazi. But that is her decision; the real tragedy lies in her social prominence as a writer. Liberals just don't get it; the irony of our nation's plight stems from America’s continued socialistic adherence to a system that promotes economic dependence on government.

[Edward J. Szewczyk]

Despite "W's" claim, it's the Republicans who are fighting the battle of the social classes - on the side of the rich. I believe in individual rights and free enterprise, but our government of, by and for the People must stand as a bulwark for all Americans and, if necessary, against the accumulated wealth of the rich, powerful and extremely influential. The government should be there to help level the playing field and to smooth many of the extremely rough-edges of unadulterated capitalism and social Darwinism. If "W" thinks that's Socialism, so what? It's fact.

[JCL]

Like the barbarian invasion of Rome "With preposterous courage they teem across the Rhine in convulsive waves, their principle weapon their own desperation." T.C.

Neither political party is going to "save" us from anything so get that abstract socialist notion out of your heads. The reason health care is in trouble is the drug companies and the doctors and greed. Yet no one asks why or holds them to task for it.

And to consider only racial differences in our current situation and deem them the source of the tensions really is unfair. The first immigrants never had anything handed to them on a silver platter and we should not have to be responsible for illegal immigrants when we have enough trouble getting by ourselves.

I have had personal experience with work place quality issues, hospital care issues, instances of downright nastiness, spreading terrible lies that affect company teamwork, and giving pink slips for no more good reason than not smiling and doing what you are told.
Never mind the sudden rashes of robberies and masses of illegal immigrants coming for all the construction jobs in the south. And Wal-Mart accommodates them with cans of Mexican hash stacked to the ceiling.
They do not and will not band together with underemployed Americans and demand higher wages. Some of them would rather push us out of the way.

[Maria]

The requirements and qualifications to get an L-1 OR H-1B visa are so scrupulous and demanding I do not believe that people who hold these visas are, to quote Edward "screwing Americans out of jobs", they are simply taking the jobs fellow americans were not able, or good enough, to perform. These people have the ability to do a better job, and never for less money, on the contrary, to get such visa the employer must prove that visa holder will get paid what a local American with such qualifications would get paid, and when you add in all the relocation and immigration expenses that accompany bringing someone from outside, then these workers cost the US much more money than a local hire. So why don't jobless Americans go back to school so they can compete against these highly qualified individuals who are taking the good jobs in America. Just a thought.

[John]

NOT TRUE, NOT TRUE, NOT TRUE!!
The whole "illegal immigrants doing the jobs Americans will not do" theory is DEEPLY flawed. The invasion of illegal immigrants has destroyed the middle class-- capitalism is not flawed! Americans refuse to take these jobs because wages have been driven down by "undocumented migrants." Fifty years ago, a man could raise a family as a construction worker, or a carpenter... But today, the average American can make more money as a welfare recipient then as a $7-per-hour laborer. Thus, the gap widens... America is losing its identity-- and though it may not be painfully obvious to some people-- WE ARE IN DANGER!!
AMERICA IS UNDER ATTACK FROM ALL SIDES-- especially from within-- MODERN LIBERALISM... (the Republican Party of today is just as traitorous as the Democrat Party.)

[Maria]

It's NOT "Illegal immigrants doing the jobs Americans will not do" it's "Legal immigrants doing the jobs Americans cannot do"...

The solution: More Americans should pursue higher education degrees and learn a second language, in other words, become competetive. Or else, suck it up folks.

[J Lee]

Oh, so this is how socialist ideology has destroyed the American middle class...

"More Americans should pursue higher education degrees and learn a second language..."

...And just roll over as our nation is invaded from the south...

GREAT IDEA, MARIA...
You must be white...
HA!

[Maria]

Mmm was that sarcasm?
Who cares? I did get YOUR job after all.

[j]

well, you better hold onto it!
there's a swarm of bloodthirsty migrants pourin' across the border right now.

[mel]

There seems to be quite the controversy with the theory that "illegal immigrants are doing the jobs Americans will not do" on this website. Having the experience of living in Southern California and witnessing the effects of immigration, I can only conclude that the effects can at times be beneficial. Throughout the horse world of Southern California, Mexican immigrants have been extremely helpful in the running of stables, and have a concrete base in horsemanship which the majority of Americans lack. I see the problems which can result from immigrants fulfilling the jobs of construction and landscaping, however there are some circumstances where immigrants benefit our society.

[Big Shot]

How dumb can you be? First of all anyone hiring Illegal Aliens is just as guilty as the Aliens themselves... The employers and the Illegal Aliens should ALL be punished to the fullest of the law. And how can you argue that Illegal Aliens should be treated better as employees... what kind of sense does that even make? We want them to return to Mexico and get work visa's so that they CAN earn minimum wage, and have fair hours; so let them get that stuff WHILE working illegally? That is stupid. Anyone who takes part in hiring, housing, or acting as an Illegal Alien needs to be fined heavily and probably serve some jail time(or be deported if they are the Alien themselves) "Hay de Me" What has this world come to where you even get to TRY and sound intelligen with those heinous remarks?
(oh and I AM a male, don't worry you only had a 50% chance of guessing that one, but not mid 30's so I guess I never read this evil book you speak of).

[Big Shot]

How dumb can you be? First of all anyone hiring Illegal Aliens is just as guilty as the Aliens themselves... The employers and the Illegal Aliens should ALL be punished to the fullest of the law. And how can you argue that Illegal Aliens should be treated better as employees... what kind of sense does that even make? We want them to return to Mexico and get work visa's so that they CAN earn minimum wage, and have fair hours; so let them get that stuff WHILE working illegally? That is stupid. Anyone who takes part in hiring, housing, or acting as an Illegal Alien needs to be fined heavily and probably serve some jail time(or be deported if they are the Alien themselves) "Hay de Me" What has this world come to where you even get to TRY and sound intelligen with those heinous remarks?
(oh and I AM a male, don't worry you only had a 50% chance of guessing that one, but not mid 30's so I guess I never read this evil book you speak of).

[Angel]

I am sure that Big Shot did not measure his words very carefully when he said that anyone who takes part in hiring or housing an immigrant needs to be fined. That is abusolutely rediculous to be that mean and that racial against people that are just coming here to gain a job so they can get money to support their family in their home country so they wont starve. And nobody is guilty for helping an immigrant gain a job or house them to say the least. Coming from immigrant parents who are now in the process of becoming U.S. citizens, everyone deserves a chance to live the American dream of having a better life and a better job.

[April342]

For success in blocking amnesty and standing against illegal immigration, everyone needs to work together as much as possible. Lets Go to DC and stand up for America. Info below:
http://www.holdtheirfeettothefire.org/

[Ray Tapajna]

The first question to ask about illegal immigration is why is it happening after the U.S. moved more than 4,000 factories to Mexico. Apparently, there are jobs in Mexico that Mexican workers will not take.
The U.S. Federal Government itself started the process. It sponsored the moving of factories outside the USA starting in 1956. It was supposed to be a temporary program to help the Mexican and Central American economies while supplying cheaper goods for the American consumer. The process was slow at first but then it evolved into the Maquiladora factory program that employed impoverished Mexican workers to make products for primarily the American consumer. Dirty manufacturing was also moved to Mexico to avoid all the ecology laws in the USA. By 1992, more than 2,000 factories were moved to Mexico. This was prior to the passing of NAFTA and GATT unfair trade agreements. It was a Democrat controlled Congress and Democrat President Clinton that passed these bills - President Clinton steered the passage of GATT in a lameduck session of Congress after the Contract with America Republics won Congress. For some reason, he could not wait until the Republicans took office in January of 1994. He called Congress back from their Nov 1993 Thanksgiving vacation period to pass GATT. Soon after getting NAFTA passed, President Clinton had to rush billions of dollars to Mexico to save the peso.
After NAFTA was passed the number of factories moved to Mexico from the USA quickly doubled to more than 4,000.
So, we now have more than 50 years of proven failures while the Free Traders call for more of the same.
President Bush followed in Clinton's footsteps and got Fast Track and CAFTA passed while the eyes of American were on his pre-emptive wars.
President Bush now says there are jobs Americans will not take but ignores the fact that there are jobs in Mexico , Mexican workers will not take. Now some of the factories are n the move again to places like China where there are workers who will work for slave wages.
The issue of immigration boils down to this. A working poor class has been created in the USA. The unemployment rates compared to anything from the past are a sham.
Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans expanded the story too. A silent depression was exposed residing in our land.
On top of this workers have no voice in the process of Globalization and Free Trade as elite groupings hold their destinies in their hands.
History tells us what happens when this is the case. It is not a good story to tell.
For more info see http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Ray_Tapajna and Explore the lost worlds in the Globalist Free Trader Flat World of Thomas Friedman from the New York Times and the Clinton Bush combo team at http://tapsearch.com/flatworld or mobile user friendly summary at http://tapsmobileworld.filetap.com
We have images and branding but very little left in local value added economies. It seems to be the end times for the American workers. Without a good supply of consumers, Free Trade will backfire.

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