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October 13, 2009

Comments

Antonia

Women today may feel less social pressure to report being happy compared to women in the early 1970s.

Hattie

Barbara: Just downloaded your new book on Kindle and am looking forward to reading it.

Ann

Barbara - I cannot tell you how delighted I am to know you exist and are doing what you do! I believe I wrote you once earlier (a year?)- and may well do so again. Caught your interview re your new book on Democracy Now website. It's past time to feel positive about righteous indignation! I have a strong social critic bent, and manage to land myself in social communities much of the time (family included) comprised of people determined to deny that interplay of individual psychology and group dynamics, if unexamined, supports status quo, a perspective which leads to "suffering is not suffering, injustice not injustice and neither can be changed by social policy". "It's probably the sufferer's fault (by attitude or choice), it's not my concern, not my job." Universal Health Care is my present focus; locally I stand alone! (Putting a "positive" spin on it, :) I sometimes think it is "my job" to be among these people and keep harping!) But I sometimes weary of such a role - knowing you are doing what you do is a terrific boost! THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH!

suzanne

Yes, thank you (again).
for a nail hit on its head.

I do believe the "motherroot" (or it might be a "fatherroot"?) of all terrible afflictions is the very definition of woman. being a woman - under virtually all known definitions of the term -
justplain seems to afflict -and not just a littlebit, but terribly.

Zach Wheat

I really enjoyed this and have now spent an evening reading your old posts.

Thanks!

twitter.com/Griff_Graff

Barbara: Having had prostate cancer and gone through a similar experience as you — I can't totally agree with you. I haven't read your book (and I will) but I did see your Daily Show interview and I have to say that the truth is somewhere between what you say and "The Secret." If you haven't read Winifred Gallagher's tome: "Rapt" — then you will get EXACTLY what I mean. Peace.

twitter.com/bcjordan

Hi Dr. Ehrenreich,

Thanks for a great "caveat emptor" for readers of popular literature (blogs count too, sometimes!) which references scientific studies.

The core problems, I think, are: (1) individual claims in popular literature are often not properly referenced (even at the ends of articles), (2) readers have no effective way of "calling bull" on unreferenced yet clearly stated claims (like they can on Wikipedia, for example), other than throwing a bottle into vast oceans of article comments, and (3) readers often don't use Google Scholar (or otherwise dig deep) enough to justify "knowing" some of the truths they find in reality :)

My dendrites to yours,
B

Tyler H Brown

Barbara,
I am sorry that positive thinking isn't working for you, but I just watched you on the Daly Show and I was really disturbed by what I saw. Yes, modern medicine can correct many ailments, and yeah, it seems unfair to think "I brought this upon myself", but I really think you are missing the bigger picture. If people are helped by positive thinking, then that is great. If people are helped by chemo, that is also great. Why would you try to discredit something that helps people, even if it is "only in their mind." How many women die from breast cancer after intensive chemo every year? Why not discredit chemo too? Cancer sucks, and I am so sorry that you or anyone else has to go through that ordeal, but if positive thinking, coupled with modern medicine helps someone, why would you so adamantly oppose it? The law of attraction describes something that I have experienced my whole life, as have many people I am close to. Its not a dead on description of reality, but neither are the laws of physics. Life is a work in progress, and in the absolute worst case scenario, if some one dies feeling positive about what ever is there lot in life, how is that bad?

twitter.com/bcjordan

Tyler,

You had me in your court until you seriously stacked the law of attraction up against the current laws of physics.

That said, if you were to post again with rationally thought out and research-backed reasons, I will recant this post, share your post with others, and chalk your last one up to a knee-jerk emotional response.

There's no excuse to defend the positive psychology position with (anything even close to) ad-hominem attacks or what-ifs or personal example-based arguments--you have at your fingertips research you can use to back up your claims.

There is a growing body of studies performed between 2005 and 2009 that show (1) correlations between positive affect and oh-so-nice things, (2) twin studies showing a decent chunk (40%) of positive affect as dependent on daily activity and malleable thought patterns and (3) simple activities that have been shown to boost long-term positive affect (would be highly correlated with what we subjectively call happiness). None of these studies suggest you need to suspend disbelief or discount physics. They only presuppose you have a scientific/epistemological regard for psychological and social psychological tools and methods.

And I'm almost late for the most interesting class I've ever taken but afterwards I may pull up some papers to get you started, if you're interested, Tyler! :)

Don't stop disbelievin',
B

Sheelzebub

Tyler, she isn't attacking "positive thinking," she's attacking the unrelenting pressure to be upbeat or else, and the self-blame (and victim-blaming) that goes hand-in-hand with this.

If someone dies feeling positive about their life, that's great. If they die faking being positive and feeling guilty and flawed because they just weren't as positive as they "should" have been, it's a tragedy and a shame.

Silencing people's fears, concerns and anger is quite destructive, and most of this positive thinking self-help stuff does just that--whether the proponents intend it or not.

LeeAnne Setterington

Thank you for your latest book, Bright-Sided. I stayed up through the night to finish it. You are a life raft in the sea of hope and denial. Hate to say it but the book had a very positive effect. I have been spending most my energy trying to find the "positive" instead of simply getting out of a bad situation. Thank you once again.

Mike Ashby

Barbara: I listened to your interview on the CBC this morning.."The Current" about the fallacy of the "positive thinking" wave that hit some decades ago. It was a kind of epiphany for me. I have for years, as far as I can remember and I'm 55, wondered if I was the only one thinking along the exact same lines you do. You bring to life the reality of all that...BULL! I could go on and on about my personal experiences but can't. You made me very happy today ! Thanks!

Bonnie

Dear Barbara,

I am in the process of writing my thesis birthed from, you guessed it, the impact "positive thinking" had on my experience with Breast Cancer. Your book and today's interview on CBC are timely. Thank you!

Now, how does one go about purchasing an autographed copy of your book?

twitter.com/bcjordan

Mike, Bonnie, (maybe Dr. Ehrenreich as well):

I hear and echo your frustrations with those who are preaching irrational positive thinking to the point of annoyance. I humbly ask that you also consider that (1) happiness is a real phenomenon with a physical basis in the brain, (2) it positively affects many peoples' lives and [for me, personally] motivation to do any non-depressive rational thinking, and that (3) some of those happy people are rational and are *really* trying to be careful not to offend anyone with their happiness or semi-selfish attempts to facilitate others to become happy and stave off depression, too.

That said, and related, I'd love to have a simple boiled-down list of five things that we can use to encourage positive-psychology-enthusiasts not to make the mistakes as those pseudoscientific practitioners profiled (I think, though still waiting on my copies) in Bright-Sided.

This list would go a long way in uniting the new science-backed positive affect enthusiasts and those who I suspect will be Dr. Ehrenreich's most enthusiastic audience -- those who have been disenfranchised by the happiness hijackers (self-help book authors that make up claims and don't use references, religion, cults).

Happy in reality,
B

Mike Ashby

The biggest fraud of 'em all has to be Tony Robbins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Robbins

The first time I saw that clown on TV in the '80's and what he was doing just made me sick. He was elevated to "rock star" status of all things with the extravagant stage shows etc. I realized it was probably mostly companies paying him the big bucks and making employees attend those things. Barbara speaks of that and how companies enslave employees to get brainwashed by that whole mantra. It all really got going with that horse-tooth charlatan in the '80's. And I believe he still operates in a lesser way at present.

Then there is the subtle but effective ones such as Dr. Wayne Dyer and all of his philosphical ways to attain "happiness". I don't want to knock the guy because he often times is compelling due to his ingenius way of not getting in your face and actually appealing to your reason. BUT, he don't fool me either. LOL.

Angelina

Great interview on CBC the Current today.

Andrea

What is difficult about the cult of positive thinking is the dissociation from reality that goes along with it. Specifically, you are supposed to exist in a world where nothing exerts power over you, but where you can create anything you imagine just by wanting it enough. To say that being treated badly by an employer, or having a life threatening disease, or drowning in credit card debt would none of it have any effect on you is asking a bit too much. Positive thinking, however, asks just that of you.

Being cheerful because you find that this is the best way of facing your reality is one thing. Insisting that you can invent and create whatever reality you want is another insane thing.

Nayagan

Barbara,

your misrepresentations have been answered by the authors of the study, citing real data. Are you game enough to answer?

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/nickeled-and-dimed-by-barbara-ehrenreich/

Barbara

Nayagan -- I would like to respond to Wolfers' response -- but where should I post it? Would rather not be buried in the comments on their Freakonomics piece.

Barbara

gmm

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080299100

Dear Barbara- that coenzyme q caller from NPR is a crazy person. This link is about the patent...PATENT....not a study. It is disgusting that people peddle this stuff. It is also only a rodent study, not a people study.

Nayagan

Barbara,

The current protocol is to write a post on your own blog, leave a comment on their post to notify them (if they do not track track-backs) and drop them an email/call.

They seem genuinely hurt by your column and, like any quants, would probably need a stats-filled response in order to continue the conversation.

These are not Austrians, mind you, so they do use numbers extensively to support their argumentation and would be offended if even a logician of Coase's stature were not to respond in kind.

It may sound presumptuous but I am willing to host your reply on my own blog and attempt to solicit their attention.

Terri Waterman

Hi Barbara, I just saw you on Jon Stewart and my mouth was hanging open listening to you. Thank you for the realism punch, I find myself tortured by constantly thinking I have to be positive - now it's my husband that's saying "I told you so!" LOL - looking forward to reading your new book. - Terri

Hugh

The best take on the positive thinking movement is a poster titled "Zombie" and pictures what used to be a nicely dressed man, now with blood and gore running from his mouth. The caption beneath reads "Don't worry. Only people with brains will die. You are okay."

K H

Brilliant!

Laura

You are one of the very few people writing about women's issues who does not rely on trite, essentialist, mainstream drivel. Thank you for having something fresh and interesting to say about why feminism is not to blame for the fact that women do not always demand equality in their relationships.

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