Rich Get Poorer, Poor Disappear

Ever on the lookout for the bright side of hard times, I am tempted to delete “class inequality” from my worry list. Less than a year ago, it was the one of the biggest economic threats on the horizon, with even hard line conservative pundits grousing that wealth was flowing uphill at an alarming rate, leaving the middle class stuck with stagnating incomes while the new super-rich ascended to the heavens in their personal jets. Then the whole top-heavy structure of American capitalism began to totter, and –poof!—inequality all but vanished from the public discourse. A financial columnist in the Chicago Sun Times has just announced that the recession is a “great leveler,” serving to “democratize[d] the agony,” as we all tumble into “the Nouveau Poor…”

The media have been pelting us with heart-wrenching stories about the neo-suffering of the Nouveau Poor, or at least the Formerly Super-rich among them: Foreclosures in Greenwich CT! A collapsing market for cosmetic surgery! Sales of Gulfstream jets declining! Niemen Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue on the ropes! We read of desperate measures, like having to cut back the personal trainer to two hours a week. Parties have been canceled; dinner guests have been offered, gasp, baked potatoes and chili. The New York Times relates the story of a New Jersey teenager whose parents were forced to cut her $100 a week allowance and private Pilates classes. In one of the most pathetic tales of all, New Yorker Alexandra Penney relates how she lost her life savings to Bernie Madoff and is now faced with having to lay off her three-day- a-week maid, Yolanda. “I wear a classic clean white shirt every day of the week. I have about 40 white shirts. They make me feel fresh and ready to face whatever battles I may be fighting …” she wrote, but without Yolanda, “How am I going to iron those shirts so I can still feel like a poor civilized person?”

But hard times are no more likely to abolish class inequality than Obama’s inauguration is likely to eradicate racism. No one actually knows yet whether inequality has increased or decreased during the last year of recession, but the historical precedents are not promising. The economists I’ve talked to-- like Biden’s top economic advisor, Jared Bernstein—insist that recessions are particularly unkind to the poor and the middle class. Canadian economist Armine Yalnizyan says, “Income polarization always gets worse during recessions.” It makes sense. If the stock market has shrunk your assets of $500 million to a mere $250 million, you may have to pass on a third or fourth vacation home. But if you’ve just lost an $8 an hour job, you’re looking at no home at all.

Alright, I’m a journalist and I understand how the media work. When a millionaire cuts back on his crème fraiche and caviar consumption, you have a touching human interest story. But pitch a story about a laid-off roofer who loses his trailer home and you’re likely to get a big editorial yawn. “Poor Get Poorer” is just not an eye-grabbing headline, even when the evidence is overwhelming. Food stamp applications, for example, are rising toward a historic record; calls to one DC-area hunger hotline have jumped 248 percent in the last six months, most of them from people who have never needed food aid before. And for the first time since 1996, there’s been a marked upswing in the number of people seeking cash assistance from TANF (Temporary Aid to Needy Families), the exsanguinated version of welfare left by welfare “reform.” Too bad for them that TANF is essentially a wage-supplement program based on the assumption that the poor would always be able to find jobs, and that it pays, at most, less than half the federal poverty level.

Why do the sufferings of the poor and the downwardly- mobile class matter more than the tiny deprivations of the rich? Leaving aside all the soft-hearted socialist, Christian-type, arguments, it’s because poverty and the squeeze on the middle class are a big part of what got us into this mess in the first place. Only one thing kept the sub-rich spending in the 00’s, and hence kept the economy going, and that was debt: credit card debt, home equity loans, car loans, college loans and of course the now famously “toxic” subprime mortgages, which were bundled and sliced into “securities” and marketed to the rich as high-interest investments throughout the world. The gross inequality of American society wasn’t just unfair or aesthetically displeasing; it created a perilously unstable situation.

Which is why any serious government attempt to get the economy going again – and I leave aside the unserious attempts like bank bailouts and other corporate welfare projects—has to start at the bottom. Obama is promising to generate three million new jobs in “shovel ready” projects, and let’s hope they’re not all jobs for young men with strong backs. Until those jobs kick in, and in case they leave out the elderly, the single moms and the downsized desk-workers, we’re going to need an economic policy centered on the poor: more money for food stamps, for Medicaid, unemployment insurance, and, yes, cash assistance along the lines of what welfare once was, so that when people come tumbling down they don’t end up six feet under. For those who think “welfare” sounds too radical, we could just call it a “right to life” program, only one in which the objects of concern have already been born.

If that sounds politically unfeasible, consider this: When Clinton was cutting welfare and food stamps in the 90s, the poor were still an easily marginalized group, subjected to the nastiest sorts of racial and gender stereotyping. They were lazy, promiscuous, addicted, deadbeats, as whole choruses of conservative experts announced. Thanks to the recession, however – and I knew there had to be a bright side – the ranks of the poor are swelling every day with failed business owners, office workers, salespeople, and long-time homeowners. Stereotype that! As the poor and the formerly middle class Nouveau Poor become the American majority, they will finally have the clout to get their needs met.

Comments

[Jimi]

Lovely sentiments, all. Too bad it's not how America works. History shows that America is essentially a machine for moving wealth upwards. Our government has almost NO idea how to help the people at the bottom. They don't exist. Consider how often you hear people talk about the lower class in political debates. You NEVEr hear about them. You hear about the middle class a lot but never the poor. For one thing, people don't want to believe that they are poor, even when they are. For another, it's just assumed that there will always be poverty and it can't really be eliminated. (Sorta like how we assume that every year we'll catch a cold or the flu - just something we have to deal with.) Talking about poverty and - heaven forbid - actually DOING something SYSTEMIC about poverty (not just the occasional ABC special wherein a house gets built for a hard-luck family) just doesn't figure into the American character. Frankly I blame Americans and not the government or the media. We're living in the country that many of us wanted - a neoliberal wasteland of no-rules wealth accumulation of the very few on the backs of the very many. It's not going to get better under Obama - not substantially - because this situation wasn't caused by legislative errors or oversight. It was caused by the very character and belief systems of the American people.

[Larry In Lethbridge]

I have mixed feelings over this dire US economic situation.

Financial hardship is tough on all aspects of society but in many corners of the world you have throngs of people cheering and reveling in the troubles some of these "well to do" people are experiencing.

I think most of this shitstorm people find themselves in brought on by them and that they have nobody to blame except themselves. As Jimi said above, time to look the belief systems and charactor
of the American people, because you let happen to yourselves.

[guy]

in my neck of the woods on long island people still live pretty good. the average wage is 50k a year.
no one is riding a bike everyone has a car even the high school kids. when i was in high school in the 70's kids had old jalopies at best, but today the kids have nice shiney new cars.
nothing changes but the weather here on long island

[Creighton]

I'll tell you where the poor are disappearing to!!!

Wait a minute, who is this kid who's barging in here thinking he can "represent the voice of the poor" via his 20 inch imac computer while secretly downloading Britney Spear's newest album on itunes in the window right behind Barbara's blog page you ask?

It is the voice of the poor indeed!

Here's why I qualify:
As a recent college graduate with a degree in Sociology, I too found myself a fool of the illusion that "once I graduate everything will be all be up hill from there."

After 6 months of extensive job searching, Nothing. Not one job even worth considering.

That being said, I have exhausted what little savings and resources I had, and even dipped into some credit card debt, in an attempt to pay rent and be able to feed myself with whatever goodies I can discover from the 99 cent store to make my dinner with. (By the way, refried beans and those expired hotdogs make a tasty feast for anyone else in my boat looking for ideas.) Therefore joining the army of the "ultra invisible poor" along with the rest of my classmates from the class of 2008 who were once considered "privileged" for even being able get an education. Instead we have been stripped from whatever hope we had and handed a big fat bill demanding we start paying back our college loans, but I say go ahead and repossess my insight, it was useless anyway.

Anyway, my point is, that I spend most of my days isolated in my tiny room located in one of the many the ghettos of LA, living vicariously through the characters on the reality TV show "The real housewives of Orange County," who wake up in the morning and randomly decided to buy million dollar boats and go on lavish shopping sprees.

It seems to be the only thing distracting me from marching into the kitchen and slitting my wrists with a plastic knife since I can't even afford real silverware.

Why don't you go out and get a minimum wage job at least you say?
I'm sure someone who is college educated can at least score one of those right?

I'm sure they can as well. But have you read "Nickle and Dimed?!" Ew, I'm glad Barbara did all the dirty work for us, letting us know that it's nearly impossible survive off minimum wage.
If I'm going to be forced to deteriorate my body at a young age, I'd rather do it rotting in the comfort of my own home. Therefore why bother wasting your energy cleaning houses, or surrendering your basic human rights for $8. I'd rather die urinating in my own privacy with dignity and my basic human rights than to submit to having some stranger watch you pee in a cup then shortly after, check your pockets on the way out of the bathroom to make sure you didn't steal any paper towels or toilet paper.

I think i'll just go admit to committing some bogus crime that I didn't do to get arrested. I mean at least in jail they feed you three meals a day, provide you with a hot shower, give you a place to sleep, and I hear those fellas behind the bars and getting laid more frequently than us poor folk out here who prefer to use condoms as socks instead cause why use something for a few minutes and throw it away when you can have a nice pair of waterproof socks for them rainy days!

But first, I'm listing my copy of "Nickel and Dimed" on eBay to get some money for food. (Sorry Barbara, I promise one day when the economy gets better, I'll buy myself a new copy) Not sure if it will be in this life time or not, heck if I care, optimism is what landed me here in the first place.

p.s my ebay seller name is The_Slurpee_kid
If anyone on the other side of the spectrum feels like supporting a hopeless college grad to buy some mac N cheese, please feel free to bid. And be on the lookout for my auction for Bait N Switch, which I will be listing as soon as I get a hold of my thieving sister who "borrowed" it and failed to return it.

Cheers!
Creighton - BalloonAnimals@mac.com

[Tom]

We're on our way out as a civilization, not just our country. In the coming years, the erratic climate and our continuing pollution and overfishing of the oceans will combine to make food scarce and then the thin veneer of civilization will become unravelled and human life will once again become brutal, nasty and short. All this financial trouble is just the beginning. Wait til the hyperinflation (like in Zimbabwe) hits (and it will). There is so much to correct and so little time left to do it that i fear we're up against impossible odds. Just correcting our energy consumption will probably take too long. We also have a looming water crisis (already happening in the southeast and southwestern U.S.), just to name a few of the massive problems humanity has to deal with by about 2015 (when it won't matter any more because by then whatever we do won't be enough to mitigate the level of CO2 the earth has to deal with).

The earth will be around, but people - we'll probably be extinct by 2020 the way it looks. (i'm not sure we'll even last that long).

[roger]

“ As a recent college graduate with a degree in Sociology, I too found myself a fool of the illusion that "once I graduate everything will be all be up hill from there. "

-----How long have you had this sense of entitlement? The real work son, begins after you leave school.

“ (By the way, refried beans and those expired hotdogs make a tasty feast for anyone else in my boat looking for ideas.) Therefore joining the army of the "ultra invisible poor" along with the rest of my classmates from the class of 2008 who were once considered "privileged" for even being able get an education. “

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/documentaries/2007/12/071227_dollar_a_day_1.shtml

“ Almost half the world's population lives on less than a dollar a day, but the statistic fails to capture the humiliation, powerlessness and brutal hardship that is the daily lot of the world's poor. “

-----Yes, as a matter of fact you are privileged. Refried beans and hot dogs would be considered a feast in many parts of the world.

“ After 6 months of extensive job searching, Nothing. Not one job even worth considering. “

“ Ew, I'm glad Barbara did all the dirty work for us, letting us know that it's nearly impossible survive off minimum wage.

If I'm going to be forced to deteriorate my body at a young age, I'd rather do it rotting in the comfort of my own home. Therefore why bother wasting your energy cleaning houses, or surrendering your basic human rights for $8. “

-----“ worth considering “ is the qualifier here. I gather you are too good for factory or field work. Is the impediment that you either can’t or you won’t wait tables? Too good to get a roommate to cut costs? Are you truly prepared to tell me that undocumented folk can find and hold employment but a college graduate cannot? Or is the problem here the part about “ jobs worth considering”. You make no mention of spouse or children. You are apparently healthy and resourceful enough to attend and graduate from college. Surely you do not expect us to believe that a single, healthy, unattached male (I am going to assume that you are male given your name) cannot carve out a living.

-----Tell me about deteriorating your body. Instead of spending your time watching TV try reading the “Grapes of Wrath” and come back and tell us what deprivation means.

Deprivation: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/3558527.stm

-----Take a good hard look then have the stones to tell me you are surrendering your basic human rights and deteriorating your body at a young age.

“ I spend most of my days isolated in my tiny room located in one of the many the ghettos of LA, “

Warsaw ghetto: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_ghetto

“ The final battle started on the eve of Passover, April 19, 1943, when the large Nazi force entered the ghetto. After initial setbacks, the Germans under the field command of Jürgen Stroop systematically burned and blew up the ghetto buildings, block by block, rounding up or murdering anybody they could capture. Significant resistance ended on April 23, 1943, and the Nazi operation officially ended in mid-May, symbolically culminated with the demolition of the Great Synagogue of Warsaw on May 16, 1943. According to the official report, at least 56,065 people were killed on the spot or deported to German Nazi concentration and death camps, most to Treblinka. “

-----Try again graduate.

[Jose]

This Roger is a smart fella.

Second, this entitled twerp Creighton needs to have a big attitude adjustment.

I think he is just bitter about not finding work after school. I happen to know many graduates coming out of school that are "on the ball" and find work no problem. Maybe "Creighton" isn't all that employable ?Maybe something wrong with him you think ?

Maybe sporting a name like "Creighton" scares people off.

[buena]

We can snipe at each other until the cows come home, or we can work together to find some solutions.

Obama wants our input. Go to www.change.gov and see how you can get involved.

The U.S. middle class is in huge trouble, and as we slide into bankruptcy and foreclosure the impact on the world economy is enormous.

Everything is connected and eventually we'll sink or swim together. Our heritage of rugged individualism isn't doing us any good.

[Mohamed]

I see the US middle class having to use soup kitchens and food banks very very soon. Already the lower classes use these means to eat, but it's coming to the middle class mark my words.

Tha clown of a President you elected twice has driven a once proud and vibrant and wealthy nation to having to resort to food stamps. Not good.

[chris]

mohamed,

The US is in for some tough sledding for a while. But clowns like you and a number of others who post here believe the end is around the corner. Why?

The US is a country populated by a lot of people who believe it is possible to overcome all problems, no matter how large the problems are.

There are, of course, a number of people, like yourself, who thrive on failure, and the failure of the US seems to be a failure that would give you a lot of enjoyment.

That's a muslim sentiment. But the US would have to adopt an islamic perspective before failure becomes the guiding psychology of the nation. It won't happen.

Though I expect little from Obama, I am certain the well established Can-Do attitude of Americans will assert itself with the usual remarkable results.

On the other hand, I expect the world's idiots -- muslim leaders, for example -- to invest much of their psychic energy in dreams of a post-American world. However, while they swim in their dreams, the US will recover and once again leave the idiots to their failed hopes.

[chris]

Larry the nitwit from Lethbridge wrote:

"...time to look the belief systems and charactor
of the American people, because you let happen to yourselves."

The slump in the US auto industry adds up to a major whupping for Canada. You had better hope the US gets itself together in a hurry. If not, the consequences will inflict enormous pain on Canada, which is dependent on US prosperity.

The bankruptcy of Nortel is just the latest Canadian casualty. Nortel may survive by passing through bankruptcy. But the reorganization shrink Nortel considerably.

[chris]

Barb writes:

"As the poor and the formerly middle class Nouveau Poor become the American majority, they will finally have the clout to get their needs met."

Now I know the worst is over. Barb is an excellent contra-indicator. When she says the end of the world is nigh, in fact, the light at the end of the tunnel is about to shine.

Unfortunately, most of our current problems resulted from lending money to people with no capacity to repay it. But their unpaid debts are real.

How do we offset the losses on the debts they have refused to honor? We have to stimulate more spending. But that means we have to give more money to many of the same people who stiffed the nation once already.

Will they stand up and pay their bills this time? Or is the nation taking a foolish risk?

This time the banks will change the rules a little. The most obvious potential defaulters will have to forget buying another house soon. Or cough up a reasonable downpayment this time.

But the age of predatory borrowing will end. That will solve a lot of economic problems.

[Danny Boy]

Roger and Chris- Thanks for a good laugh. I can't believe you two uneducated morons are still posting on here. Anyway, have fun with your delusions.

[barbsright]

The American belief that we can all be winners in the 'casino economy' is over. Barb is right, people have been finally awakened to the fact they are no longer middle class---but poor. I and my fellow college educated friends have been, and are, experiencing this firsthand. Too many people have seen their 401k's shrink, so they can no longer delude themselves that all is OK. Rush Limbaugh, Thursday on his program, admitted that when he started making money he invested improperly even though his money manager was highly recommended and he followed the managers advise. In doing so Rush, unknowingly, admitted that the social safety net is necessary when it comes to Social Security, etc. Barb wins.

[Theresa McAlister]

I don't think the rich are getting that much poorer, but I do believe the poor will be obselete one day. Who then will pay the debt that the poor people have left behind? The rich will have to humble themselves into living in $100,000 homes instead of million dollar homes. How much more humble can it get? The side of town I reside on will be called the poor side of town. I will have to live on my whole life insurance, then how will my children bury me? When I was a child in the 60's, I was carefree but now I wonder if my parents worried at all about what I do today. Of course it didn't cost as much to bury them as it will us. I am half way through my life and I am scared to death of what the rest of it is going to be like, especially for my children and grand-children. Will they suffer because of the way society is and always will be. Nothing can ever change this. We can analyze and theorize all we want, because it is and always be the our forefathers way, and the only thing that has changed is the decades and the centuries. If there is anyone out there that has a solution to all this mess, I sure would like to see what he has.

[lc2]

Lmao! I popped in just to see if roger/chris were still at it. Hilarious.

Let me sum up, in case anyone here isn't familiar with roger/chris:

If you're not rich, it's because you're lazy, entitled, stupid, immature, and just a basically inferior human being. Don't like that answer? Go to Darfur, that'll make you appreciate everything you have and reinforce the fact that the rich do in fact deserve every penny they can squeeze out of you for whatever frivolous purpose their heart desires.

No need to thank me for pre-empting your comments, roger/chris ... I know you're busy trolling other blogs and I figured I'd lend a hand. Cheers!

[Creighton]

Roger,
"I gather you are too good for factory or field work. Is the impediment that you either can’t or you won’t wait tables? Too good to get a roommate to cut costs? Are you truly prepared to tell me that undocumented folk can find and hold employment but a college graduate cannot? Or is the problem here the part about “ jobs worth considering”. You make no mention of spouse or children. You are apparently healthy and resourceful enough to attend and graduate from college. Surely you do not expect us to believe that a single, healthy, unattached male (I am going to assume that you are male given your name) cannot carve out a living."

I actually do wait tables, on the weekends, and have been ever since I started college, working double shifts EVERY WEEKEND.
I just didn't feel it was necessary to mention because I don't really consider that a "job", its more of a task to me, that enables me to pay rent, while in search for a REAL job.

And yes, I do have roommates, five of them as a matter of fact.

In regards to the undocumented folk getting jobs and being able to hold them..Have you seen mob of undocumented day labors flocking the parking lot of your local home depot?
Im not sure how you can miss them, the numbers are multiplying faster than you can microwave a bag of popcorn.

And for those other undocumented people that you speak of that have this, uh, foreign magnetic ability to land white collared jobs, where are they? Let me know because I want to go ask them if I can borrow some of their magical fairy dust.

And while I am aware of the suffering third world countries are experiencing, this blog post was originally about US, as in, the citizens of The United States of America, and our immediate environment here.

I mean sure, throw me in any 3rd world country and you betcha im gonna be on the top 2% there but this is America, and
we are spoiled.

And as I mentioned, sure I could easily carve out a living, by working minimum wage jobs to survive, but you tell me, would u want to do all the dirty work they do in nickle and dimed?

And yes, I am a single healthy young male with a roof over my head, a 2008 Honda Civic, and an education and I'm still jobless. Open your eyes America, this is it.

[Creighton]

p.s Jose, please take a shower, and not my computer.

Double P.S
Roger, assuming you're a grandpa because you called me "son".
Let's here your marvelous story about how you made it out of the ditch of the great depression by waiting tables and factory work. Because obviously, you must have done something right to be able to have the luxury at your age to acquire new technological skills such as surfing the internet, although im not sure I would call it "advanced" since you are using Dial up.

[Creighton]

Spelling Error. *Here should be Hear. Like Roger lost his Hearing at age 98

[Chickensh*tEagle]

chris: "Though I expect little from Obama..."

E.g., getting elected to start with.

lc2: A couple more things to mention about roger and chris -- roger can't distinguish socialism from Stalinism, although he sees to have realized that using capital letters where appropriate maks his posts look a lot better; chris will play the anti-Semite card at the drop of a chickpea.

[JustCallMeKathy]

Creighton, Welcome to the American Dream!

[Lydia]

Oh boo hoo, Creighton. Give me a break. We are in the same situation, only I am a single mother ( due to my only poor life choices, not playing a sympathy card);it really is all in your attitude.

I recently graduated with a degree in social work ( and seriously, dude, sociology? In the economy? Like what did you expect?) and I am working 35 hrs. a week for 8.25 an hour in an entry level social service position because I couldn't get a job due to droves of experienced social workers being out of work and snatching up all the open jobs. But guess what? When a case management job opens up at my agency I'll be first in line to take it, because I was willing to "demean" myself doing the work of poor, uneducated people.

I make my bills and even have money for luxuries like the internet because I live modestly. One bedroom apartment gets cramped with a 2 year old in the house, but you do what you have to do. No fancy food, but at least are bellies are full. No childcare because I rely on extended family (retired grandparents, etc) to help me out in that department. That's part of what is wrong with our society. The family unit has be decimated to the point that people have to rely on the government instead of forming relationships with friends, family (this includes gasp! church family-I know most of you guys are probably too good for organized religion, too) to help in times of need.

My advice to anyone in this particular economy is to get into something like nursing (even if it's only vocational LPN nursing). That's a pretty rigorous program, Creighton, but if you want a job it only takes a year and a guarantee you that you will find work the minute you graduate and make a pretty decent living. Then you can get some experience and stairstep into an RN program if you like the job, and you'll be set for life. My mom is an RN for the VA and makes just under 100k a year. You will have to demean yourself, though. She has to gasp! wipe sick people's butts and everything. Doesn't seem to bother her though.

And to all of the sky-is-falling, end is near doomsayers. Like, seriously, shut the fuck up. You annoy me. The economy is cyclical. We'll be up and running again by the time my daughter is in high school if not sooner.

I'm pretty poor, though not destitute. Almost all of my 8.25 coworkers are poorer than me and have more kids. Yet, you know what? They survive. Somehow they survive, and they really don't spend all day bitching about how hard they have it. Most of them talk about their kids and their churches---I don't know where Barb found her people for Nickel and Dimed but the picture she painted isn't the reality I see.

[chris]

Lydia obviously understands how to manage her finances and balance her life while keeping an eye on her future. That's a success story.

[chris]

lc2, you wrote:

"If you're not rich, it's because you're lazy, entitled, stupid, immature, and just a basically inferior human being."

Obviously the preceding is the recording that plays endlessly in your head.

[chris]

chickenshit,

We hold presidential elections every four years. There is always a winner of the election. After that, the real ballgame begins.

However, if you believe that winning the election predicts a great presidency, then you have not been paying attention over the years.

If Obama is as lucky as Clinton -- No Major Assaults on the US by Hostile Forces -- then his administration would have a chance of remaining popular till it ends.

But he's not that lucky. We know this already. Iran is on its way to getting a nuclear bomb. If Obama believes he can persuade Iran to stop working on its nuclear bomb, he is out of his mind. But, he has said he will negotiate with Iran.

Of course the Iranian leadership will lie to his face and continue to build its bomb. When he is forced to face the facts, he will have a bigger problem.

Does Obama have the stomach for a pre-emptive strike against Iran's nuclear development facilities?

Or will he accept a nuclear Iran? Does he have the nerve to challenge a nuclear Iran?

What will he do if Israel wipes out Iran's nuclear program?

The recent episode in which Israel mopped the floor with Hamas should inform Obama that Israel will attack Iran's nuclear sites. What will he do after that?

How does Obama feel about Robert Mugabe and his destruction of Zimbabwe? Will Obama watch as Zimbabwe collapses? Or will he remove Mugabe by force?

Millions of Americans and millions of businesses have put out their hands for federal money. In other wrods, taxpayers are expected to hand over their money to people who defaulted on their mortgages.

Will the handouts take the form of reparations for slavery? That appears to be the coming demand.