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March 19, 2008

Comments

Lulu Maude

Eeeek. Out-Republicaning the Republicans.

Thanks for this post.

dtjb

Please - this is not helping Obama. This article smacks of unfounded rumor and gossip, and is more fit for a smear tabloid than an intelligent discussion on politics.

ann

I agree with dtjb. Very disappointed in this article.

lin

Barbara, what on earth has happened to you? You are publishing garbage and I am not alone in thinking this. See above posts about publishing unfounded rumor more fit for a tabloid. Your hatred of Hillary seems pathological.

Ponyboy

Christian Radicals....the same as Islamic Radicals.

Our God is bigger than your God...blah blah blah..

Jesus was a man of peace; and he was murdered.

Nothing has changed.

boohall

Barbara, you are joking aren't you. Good one, I'm still laughing.

gaby

I wish the entire campaign were religionfree. All this sudden devoutness is all phony baloney. If there is anything that the religious right taught us is that claiming to be religious and going to church on Sunday does not mean anything, it has no bearing on character and morality. Just too many of those "god-fearing" and "righteous" politicians are caught with their pants down and involved in various financial scandals.

Barbara E

This was not a premeditated hit on Hillary, nor is it gossip or a joke. I happened to have been reading a manuscript of Jeff Sharlet's book, The Family, because he sent it to me for a blurb. Late last week, when the business about Obama's pastor broke out, I had just gotten to Sharlet's section on Hillary's involvement with the Family. Already creeped out by Sharlet's account of the Family, I decided I had to blog about this.

Anarcissie

I don't see the "unfounded rumor" in the article. It is true parts of the article are speculative, as they must be if we cannot read minds, but she and the other people mentioned actually belong to this organization, do they not?

In any case I do not see her membership as doing her much harm. White Americans are afraid of the otherness and possibly the anger or resentment of non-Whites, which is what the Obama flap has been all about, but they seem relaxed about Evangelical and fundamentalist religious froth even if they don't like it or its practitioners very much.

The people who have their hair up about Clinton's drive for power and domination seem to be mostly rightists who would never vote for her anyway.

Clinton has been quiet during the controversy about Obama's former pastor because it's already working to her advantage -- Blackifying Obama -- and no further help is needed at this time.

lbriggs

This is not a weird conspiracy theory. The basic outlines of this story are well-documented, and well-known (especially to historians of Central America).

Anticommunist evangelicals did indeed solidify power internationally through religious circles linked to Billy Graham--who has advised presidents from Nixon to Clinton to Bush. According to journalist and media critic Ben Badikian, it was William Randolph Hearst and Henry Luce who “made” Billy Graham, plunging him into the limelight through their news empires because they liked his anticommunism; Luce put him on the cover of Time in 1954. Regardless, his was a message that fit the tenor of the times, linking the threat of "Godless Communism"--and the need for a strong U.S. response--to a belief in the literal truth of the Bible, and the need for a religious revival in the country at large in circles of political power in general.

Evangelicals were and are committed internationalists, and built their religious networks along anti-Communist lines. Most famously, Efrain Rios Montt, the author of the genocide of indigenous people in Guatemala in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, was an evangelical pastor (and army general) with strong links to Reagan's evangelical base in the United States.

Those who want to "get religion out of politics" are going to miss a lot that's going on.

Mitchell Freedman

As someone hoping for Gore to be drafted at the convention after neither Hillary nor Obama get enough votes to win on the first ballot, I see no problem with Barbara E's post.

The sad truth, however, is that this will not hurt Hillary the way Rev Wright's comments hurt Obama. And that's because Rev Wright was speaking about things that elite corporate media people don't want to hear or agree with--and there is no powerful constituency for Rev Wright's views, either.

The Family has powerful supporters, and the elite corporate media are afraid of those supporters, and the views expressed are not considered as outside the pale as the comments of Rev Wright were and re considered.

McCain still gets friendly elite corporate media coverage, and has skated by his endorsement of Rev Hagee plus his own ignorance of foreign affairs. Hopefully, if it is Obama or Hillary, they can squeeze by and win. I'd rather give Gore a chance for a 90 days sprint, though...

Dawn

I saw one main source for this story and not alot of strong documentation leaving it sounding a bit like 'hear-say.' I am surprised at the one-sided reporting on this. That alone makes it suspect and I'm wondering why Barbara didn't do her own homework of primary sources on this instead of depending on one guy who was in a men's home for a few days/weeks. I don't think that gives a very clear picture of the whole organization.

I can see, after reading this, why we need laws to govern our rights to religious freedom. Otherwise everyone would be dictating what we should believe and who we should believe it with.

Facist-leaning? Oh my. You really think Hillary supports a "governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism."

And you think that because she goes to a fundamentalist church?

Dawn

Anarcissie

It seems to me that the basic idea of fascism is that a society is properly led and governed by a self-selected elite. That also seems to be the philosophy of The Family, as well as of people of many other ideological colorations, even the classical liberalism of Jefferson with his "natural aristocracy". The original fascists (Mussolini and company) simply purified the idea by getting rid of the constitutional baggage of liberalism and classical conservatism. They thought _they_ were the true progressives. I don't know to what extent The Family and Clinton go in for this sort of thing; I guess I would call them rightists rather than fascists, since while they are certainly authoritarian I don't see them going all the way to support of overt dictatorship.

She declawed her cat, though.


Chickensh*tEagle

Barbara: "The Family’s most visible activity is its blandly innocuous National Prayer Breakfast, held every February in Washington."

The Inner Circle's weekly praise dinner is the real attraction. But it's only for the elite inner circle, the Keepers of the Grail. (Yes, the Holy Grail really is in their keeping. In your face, Dan Brown!)

Every Friday night, the invited guests stand at their tables in the refectory while a full operatic chorus and orchestra (augmented by a pipe organ greater than the one in the National Cathedral) perform the chorus from the first act of Parsifal -- culminating in a thunderously triumphal ending instead of trailing off into doubt as in Wagner's original version. This time, the Grail will emerge and rule the earth!

Or so I imagine it. :-)

Disco

If I may add to the political discourse, Hillary Clinton is really David Bowie.

Buena

Brilliant blog, Barbara. While others have commented here that there's a lot of tolerance for groups like The Family, Hillary's association with them is still shocking and distasteful to many of us.

Carol Novack

When I received this article via Mark Crispin's newsletter, I knew immediately that it had been publicized by an Obama supporter. As others have observed, the shocking allegations are unfounded. So some guy wants to get rich and famous by writing an expose, which may or may not contain fanciful slurs calculated to hurt HRC's chances of winning the nomination. HRC the Nazi fascist? HRC at fault for changing her name? Do men change their names? I imagine that it's not easy to figure out what to call yourself when you have political ambitions of your own and don't want to be equated with your husband, ex President Clinton. The article reeks of misogyny and vicious allegations.

I'm not a fan of Hillary's and I've read too much about Obama to consider him a progressive. His mentor was Lieberman, in case you didn't know. Not to mention his corporate ties.

The Republicans lap up rumors like this. If Obama supporters continue to tarnish HRC and Clinton supporters continue to tarnish BO, the Republicans will get their war mongering candidate elected. Articles like this are helping Mc Cain.

Yeah, I wish Gore would take the reins. At least, we know that he worships Mother Earth!

roger

from mother jones:

" In fact, Clinton's God talk is more complicated—and more deeply rooted—than either fans or foes would have it, a revelation not just of her determination to out-Jesus the gop, but of the powerful religious strand in her own politics. "

it is phrases like God talk and out-Jesus that i find random and erratic. it is as if the mother jones authors choose not to allow for any authentic God belief in the public forum. as if religion and belief are so foreign and barbarian that they feel they must take a pejorative stance prior to discussion of the subject.

" These days, Clinton has graduated from the political wives' group into what may be Coe's most elite cell, the weekly Senate Prayer Breakfast. Though weighted Republican, the breakfast—regularly attended by about 40 members—is a bipartisan opportunity for politicians to burnish their reputations, giving Clinton the chance to profess her faith with men such as Brownback as well as the twin terrors of Oklahoma, James Inhofe and Tom Coburn, and, until recently, former Senator George Allen (R-Va.). Democrats in the group include Arkansas Senator Mark Pryor, who told us that the separation of church and state has gone too far; Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is also a regular.

twin terrors of oklahoma. yes i would say that both mother jones and barbara's column smack of gossip and innuendo.

Carolyn Kay

They help troubled kids.

Shocking.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

Jeff Sharlet

As the coauthor of the Mother Jones piece and the author of the book Barbara cites, I will stand firm on one essential point, in respond to the post above: Calling Senators James Inhofe and Tom Coburn the "twin terrors of Oklahoma" is hardly innuendo.

But, if you feel Coburn has a point in proposing the death penalty for abortion providers, or that Inhofe makes a fair case for why "global warming" is just a liberal conspiracy, I suppose you might think Kathryn Joyce and I were a little unfair.

But Inhofe and Coburn aren't the point here: It's Hillary. What's odd about accusations that this is conspiratorial is that it's based almost entirely on the public record. We didn't need to meet anyone in a parking garage at midnight to find out that Hillary considers Doug Coe a "genuinely loving spiritual mentor"; she writes that in Living History. And if you don't want to take my word for Doug Coe's Hitler talk, there are sermons available online and 600 boxes of documents rife with such material available to the public in Collection 459 of the Billy Graham Center Archives, not an institution known for conspiracy theories or hostility to religion.

The fact is, The Family is NOT a conspiracy, it's bad theology. And challenging Hillary's association with this authoritarian interpretation of the gospel can hardly be considered anti-religious when The Family itself mocks religion as suitable for the masses but useless for God's anointed, who, they argue, are given special teachings direct from God.

And making the case that Barbara is drawing on an unsourced hit piece is really absurd. Mother Jones, like all decent magazines, does extensive fact checking -- you don't get to declare something without proof. The piece wasn't a hit piece, either. What's my evidence? I actually voted for Hillary. I've changed my mind since, but I voted for her knowing about her affiliations, worried about her affiliations, because I thought her health care plan was better and that Obama was no different on other issues. I now think I was wrong, and I'll freely admit that I've never been a fan of hers, but I can hardly be accused of pursuing an Obama agenda when I actually voted for her over Obama.

I raised the questions I did because they are there: because Hillary asks us to take her religion seriously as a part of her candidacy. Ok, so let's do so. I've tried to do that, and so has Barbara. Would that Hillary's defenders do as much as to take their candidate at her word.

Obamanationthatdesolates

This is shocking. I am not talking about the story itself, but the fact that Barbara Ehrenreich seems to believe it. It's like conversing with a random person on the street only to notice about 5 minutes in that the person's fingernails are filthy, their cuffs are worn, and their hair is matted. I guess politics can bring out the insanity in people. What's next? Do you think Hillary had Vince Foster killed?

Tara W

Who will Obama select as his Vice Presidential Candidate?

If Obama has questionable spriritual advisor's, then we need to examine all of his other advisor's. We cannot afford to have questionable individuals in the White House or even second in command.

Tara W.
Http://CenterLine.tv

roger

" But, if you feel Coburn has a point in proposing the death penalty for abortion providers, or that Inhofe makes a fair case for why "global warming" is just a liberal conspiracy, I suppose you might think Kathryn Joyce and I were a little unfair. "

yeah the question here really truly is whether you are being fair to the twin terrors.

what exactly does it mean when you write that hillary is attempting to out-Jesus the republicans.

i gather that this is not denigrating to sincere belief. or perhaps i am off base once again.

signed

--knuckle dragging christian homophobe from one of the fly over states.

Chickensh*tEagle

obamanationthatdesolates: "It's like conversing with a random person on the street only to notice about 5 minutes in that the person's fingernails are filthy, their cuffs are worn, and their hair is matted."

Whereas you've rung the doorbell and shown your fingernails, cuffs and hair right up front.

Nobody's talking about Vince Foster. And if Obama's spiritual associations are fair game, then so are Clinton's.

"I guess politics can bring out the insanity in people."

Amen!

Tara W: "If Obama has questionable spriritual advisor's, then we need to examine all of his other advisor's. We cannot afford to have questionable individuals in the White House or even second in command."

Obama has already repudiated Rev. Wright's outrageous statements. As for Obama's "second in command," it will probably be some frothing-at-the-mouth nut like Bill Richardson.

Next question: Who would you really be voting for if you voted for John McCain?

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