The War on Infrastructure

This morning, flanked by a dozen people who lost cars or family members in last week’s I-35W bridge collapse, President Bush declared a “War on Infrastructure.” Describing the July steam pipe explosion in Manhattan and the bridge collapse in Minneapolis as “cowardly attacks on our way of life,” he explained that until now, “the War on Infrastructure has been largely centered on Iraq, where it has been over 70 percent successful. Today, very few operating bridges, water mains or power grids remain for Iraqis to worry about.”

Anticipating the usual caviling, he added that the new war is in no way a distraction from the ongoing War on Terror. “The World Trade Center towers would not have fallen under the force of airplane collisions alone,” he said, “The role of faulty construction, which is code phrase for infrastructure, can no longer be denied.”

Ken Pollack, the Brooking Institute’s die-hard supporter of the war in Iraq, warned that the War on Infrastructure could be as difficult to win as the War on Terror. “We’d gotten used to fighting human enemies,” he said, “and now we’re up against abstract nouns.”

“We expected that there would be a dastardly attack on the homeland sometime this summer,” added Donald Rumsfeld, who will end his brief retirement to take charge of the War on Infrastructure. He attributed the nation’s lack of preparation to the Clinton administration, with its “hear-no-evil, see-no-evil policy toward highway overpasses.”

Congressional Democrats rushed to display their support for the president in his new initiative. Hillary Clinton promised to vote for the bombing of infrastructure on condition that the president checks in with Congress first, assuming he can find them and that the phone and DSL lines are working.

Echoing her sentiments on Pakistan, she said she does not rule out the use of nuclear warheads on particularly entrenched elements of infrastructure, even if civilians are using them at the time. “Anyone who wants to be president has to be prepared to kill people,” she added – “with her bare hands if necessary.”

Perhaps the strongest anti-infrastructure rumblings have come from Dick Cheney, who sent a message from his undisclosed location shortly after the Minneapolis bridge collapse, stating that: “We will prevail even if it means water-boarding every last one of America’s remaining bridges.”

A spokeswoman from the Transportation Safety Administration announced that people seeking to cross bridges will be required to remove their shoes, jackets and all metal items. The effect of this measure on infrastructure is not known, but, she said, “It will definitely facilitate swimming.”

Comments

[jay]

Mmmm... that's good snark.

[Dr. Steph]

Don't forget the potholes--those filthy, freedom hating chasms!

[buena]

What color ribbons should we wear to support this war? Are the bumper stickers on sale yet?

[Curly Earl]

Everywhere you look, things are breaking down, deteriorating to point that total reconstruction will prove more beneficial than bandaid solutions.

I think President Bush should declare a War on Obesity along with this infastructure war you mention.

With so many of our young one's running around outta breath, anxiously awaiting Mom or Dad to get em to drive thru, I think this will lead to young adults driving themselves to the drive thru and pretty soon, 50 % of the US population will be medically considered obese. hmmmm

[buena]

And a war on stupidity, too. That way we won't have to go through the bother of impeaching anyone.

I've read that the people in New Orleans had a somewhat jaded reaction to seeing Bush on the bridge, promising quick action. Two years after Katrina, they're still in FEMA trailers, if they even got one. What a crock. The money we've wasted in Iraq could've rebuilt New Orleans and all our country's bridges.

[Terry]

Yes! War on fat! War on Medical System! War on big oil! Right.

Good point. Bush thinks.....um.......OK he doesn't. He just has no philosophical or introspective bone in his body....

[buena]

Why is this twit still in office?

[Brian Stewart]

I read your article as if this is what they were actually saying. Its really gotten that bad! Today realizing Hillary would probably be our next president cementing 24-28 years of these Bush-Clinton people made me just want to pack up get really far away from these obsessive narcissists. What has happened to our American Experiment to go so wrong?

[Monica]

How convenient! Some time later, American companies will have lots of business opportunities in Iraq.

Aside from any actual killing, this "war on infrastructure" is a crime against humanity, as things like basic sanitation and the availability of food and other necessities depend on them. This is also an expression of American arrogance.

According to this school of thought, Americans deserve a reliable infrastructure, and they should not even realize how fragile it is and what would happen if it broke down. On the other hand (it's not me who says that, it's just part of that way of thinking), Iraq used to have a primitive infrastructure in the first place, but who cares about those savages? Let's just destroy theirs, but God forbid something happens to ours, which is part of our way of life! Their way of life is kind of primitive and backwards anyway, and who cares about theirs?

I know that this is not likely to happen, but I wish someone built a really great, brand new infrastructure in Iraq, one that would actually be better in some respects than what is available in the States. Some Americans, especially the Moron in Chief, are just too arrogant, and it would serve them right!

[TahoeTim]

There won't be many who argue that the war in Iraq is a huge waste of lives and money to no worthwhile purpose, however it ends. Vietnam was just as inane. Building a bridge without planning for maintenance and replacement is just as stupid. Defining borders and passing laws without enforcement is the same game. Republican or Democrat just more of the same corrupt machine, driving this country into the same hole. Hey, thanks for the forum, I feel lots better now.

[Maya's Granny]

I think that the War on Infrastructure has been going on since Reagan was elected and we started going for ever lower taxes.

[Andrea]

You know what we need a war on? The Garden State Parkway around exit 145. Someone has to declare war on that. It's terrible.

[Hedley Lamarr]

You people are missing the point here.

Crumbling infrastructure is exciting. Well-maintained infrastructure is, well, boring.

It's probably no accident that the War on Taxes--which IMO really began in '78 with Prop 13--began just as those post-apocalyptic Urban Hell movies became popular (think John Carpenter, Ridley Scott, Mad Max, etc.).
Personally, I think rusting reinforcing rods sticking out of jagged bits of concrete are kewl.

[Curly Earl]

Buena, You asked: Why is this twit still in office?

Well, you elected him twice.

Just goes to show you what a multi million $ campaign blitz will do to elect a Doofus.

Any plans on re-electing any more doofus presidents/vice
presidents ?
Might be a good idea to administer an IQ test for any new candidate running for prez.

[Stargeezer]

Hey Curly,
We're Amurrcans. We have only Doofi to vote for. Stupidity RULES!!

[Justin K.]

I think Bush declared war on porn at one point. This man would declared war on taco's if he could. Could you imagine if we declared war on every little thing we don't like. If we could then I declare war on habanero peppers, cheap razors, number two pencils, Microsoft (and all other none Mac computers) and Grey's anatomy with "Dr. Mcdreamy" The only thing we should declare war on is the patriot act. Bush is a joke.

[buena]

I DID NOT ELECT HIM!

[Mel]

I found your site through a shared link that I have with “A Hole in the Fence.” Would you be interested in a link swap? Please visit my site at: http://mondaymorningpower.blogspot.com. My site is “Dedicated to the Pursuit, Capture, Care & Feeding of a Positive Mental Attitude.” I have zero adds on my site. I feel that what I have to say has universal significance. If you like what you see and agree, then link my site to yours, leave me a comment on my blog that you have done so and I will immediately do the same. I only make this offer to sites that I know my readers would benefit from. I believe that our respective readers would benefit from a shared link. My site seems to be very popular with women. Take a look at who links to my site and you will see what I mean.

[chris]

"The War on Infrastructure"

Ooohh. A joke commentary that fell flat.

However, based on the nature of this commentary, it's clear Barbara thinks the federal government is responsible for mechanical failures in the US. By extension, it's clear she thinks the federal government is responsible for EVERYTHING.

Barbara wants Federal Government Medicine, Federal Government Schools, and now, Federal Government oversight for Bridge Builders.

It's unfortunate that anyone would believe we have a poor safety record in the US.

If you want poor safety records, check the islamic countries. Iran, for one. An earthquake registering 6.7 on the Richter Scale hit Qum, Iran at the end of 2003.

The death toll was well over 30,000. Meanwhile, the population of the town before the earthquake was about 75,000.

Iran is a country with a leadership that is contemptuous of its citizens. No building codes exist to protect people from these disasters.

On almost the same date an earthquake also struck California. It was the same magnitude. I believe about two people were killed. When the earthquakes struck northern CA in 1989 and southern CA in 1994, only a handful of people were killed.

Maintenance and repair work on many bridges, tunnels and roadways may be overdue, but the responsibility for scheduling this important work does not lie with the federal government.

[Mark Marquez]

We have seen the social infrastructure collapsing all around us, with little effort to rebuild cities, parks and public services. Nobody wants to raise taxes except on items the poor man has to live on or enjoys. Suspicion is everywhere and it does not seem to stop. The only solution to this mess is to continue to learn from mistakes of the past and hope for the future.

[Lulu Maude]

Ick. Chris is at it again. It fell flat for you, Chris, because you should be off reading a Republican humorist rather than trying to correct a progressive on what is and is not funny.

Go read Christopher Buckley and P.J. O'Rourke and leave us all alone.

BTW, the bridge is part of an interstate, and as such is the responsibility of the federales.

Now get lost.

[Larry In Lethbridge]

I think I know what makes Chris tick (or malfunction).

Chris gets his jollies by posting here, trying to convince the forum of his supposed superior intellect.

Neglected as a young child, young adult, and now as a grown adult, the lack of attention and nurturing has made him into a Class A Buffoon.
People like Chris make for good case study in post secondary psychology courses. His personality type is used as a classic example of one being "antisocial" and at times can be referred to as a social misfit.

Much can be learned from such assbackwards behaviour.

One last thing.Barbara has every right to be satirical in any of her postings. It's her blog right ? You don't like it, bugger off, dickhead.

[paperpusher666]

Chris said: "Maintenance and repair work on many bridges, tunnels and roadways may be overdue, but the responsibility for scheduling this important work does not lie with the federal government."

The federal government doesn't PAY for the repairs in a lot of cases, either. State and local roads are paid for by the states and localities, usually from income or property taxes. The feds would be responsible for coordinating with state officials for repairs on the interstates. In the case of the interstates, they do pay most of the cost of repairs and maintenance. Unless I read the sign wrong, a repair project on I-95 was paid over 90% by the feds ($7 million from feds, $150K from PA)

New Jersey is pondering a huge bond issue to fix a lot of the substandard bridges and roads. They are also considering leasing the right to operate the NJ Turnpike for a period of years.

[buena]

You're right, Larry. Except that Chris gets his jollies every time somebody responds to him. If he were completely ignored, he'd go away.

[paperpusher666]

Chris said: "Maintenance and repair work on many bridges, tunnels and roadways may be overdue, but the responsibility for scheduling this important work does not lie with the federal government."

The federal government doesn't PAY for the repairs in a lot of cases, either. State and local roads are paid for by the states and localities, usually from income or property taxes. The feds would be responsible for coordinating with state officials for repairs on the interstates. In the case of the interstates, they do pay most of the cost of repairs and maintenance. Unless I read the sign wrong, a repair project on I-95 was paid over 90% by the feds ($7 million from feds, $150K from PA)

New Jersey is pondering a huge bond issue to fix a lot of the substandard bridges and roads. They are also considering leasing the right to operate the NJ Turnpike for a period of years.

[chris]

Larry in WhiteBridge, you wrote:

"One last thing.Barbara has every right to be satirical in any of her postings. It's her blog right ? You don't like it, bugger off, dickhead."

Her commentary did not rise to the level of satire. In fact, it failed, even as an example of satire's lowly cousin, sarcasm.

But Larry, you should take my advice and stop reading what I write. Ignore me. Your ignorance won't offend me.

By the way, I'm in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho this week. There are about as many blacks here as in your town.

[Justin K.]

Larry,

I understand how you feel about chris. I believe he's paid to disagree with every thing Barbara E. says. Perhaps he's employed by some major box store. How ever, as much as I hate to say this. Just as Barbara E. has the right to blog about what ever she wants Chris has the right to post on her blog. It's hard to not respond to his post because he knows how to push our buttons. Yes I under stand the need to call him names. But try to restrain your self from doing so. If I wanted to hear childish bickering I would watch my nephews fight over the last cookie.

[chris]

According to published reports in the New York Times this week, the Federal Government provides about 22% of all funds spent on highways in the US.

Nevertheless, the theme of Barbara's commentary boils down to blaming the Federal Government for the collapse of the Minnesota bridge.

She seeks the creation of a totalitarian nanny-state, wherein the federal government is empowered to meet ALL needs of American citizens, without regard for cost.

[A Canadian]

Hey Mel,

I checked out your blog....great stuff! Instead of just checking it out on Monday mornings I think I'll take a look every day!

Thanks!

[Susan Berlowitz]

Throughout my life, I have always associated the word war, regardless of its use, with guns, death, violence and destruction. I have never understood its use in, for instance, "The War on Poverty," etc. I remember asking my Grandmother Hagglund if they were going to start shooting poor people. I was very distressed. Of course, she explained to me what it meant, but she also made it clear to me that she didn't like the language the politians drafted. Therefore, I thoroughly enjoyed Barbara's slant on the subject of George Bush's "War on Infrastructure." Wars don't fix things, wars destroy. That takes me back to the War in Vietnam and destroying the village in order to save it. Inane, at best...with a strong Orwellian bent.

[Larry In Lethbridge]

Justin,

I hear your point, but sometimes you just need to revert to a little namecalling to emphasize a point. As Chris has a right to post his archaic ideas and insist on things need to be done his way, I have a right to call him out for what he really is.

I just don't think this fool should time and time again, come back and denigrate people with his snarky responses and innuendos. One thing to disagree, but to repeatedly reappaer and repost with his pomposity ? . Another story. This dude is a pompous bully and if you haven't heard yet Justin, it is OK to retaliate against bullies.

Last thing. His attitude is a large contributing reason as to why some the problems are occuring in your country. Close minded narrow thinking intellectuals like Chris are going to drive the US into even deeper kaka.

Coeur d'Alene uh ? Sure buddy, Brooklyn Public Library Shared Internet.

[Justin K.]

"Last thing. His attitude is a large contributing reason as to why some the problems are occuring in your country. Close minded narrow thinking intellectuals like Chris are going to drive the US into even deeper kaka."

huff.... to true and so sad.

[fedup]

Buena, you're absolutely right.

1) I never voted for the "twit."

2) The $ spent on the Iraq war could take care of many of the bridges in this country.

3)The $ spent on the Iraq war could help take care of the Katrina mess.

[Anarcissie]

Susan -- you are right about the constant use of "war" as a metaphor for getting things done. Problems like poverty can be overcome only by innumerable, small, steady, constructive acts, not by crisis, grandstanding, aggression and heroics. But war is very popular, especially among the less intelligent, and so politicians will continue use it.

[chris]

fedup, you wrote:

"2) The $ spent on the Iraq war could take care of many of the bridges in this country."

Bridge maintenance and repair is generally not funded by the federal government. The Minnesota bridge is the responsibility of the state of Minnesota, not the federal government.

Don't bother holding the wrong party responsible for maintenance and repair decisions. In this case, blame Minnesota. Maybe Paul Wellstone was murdered to prevent him from speaking the truth about the structural weakness of the bridge.

You wrote:

"3)The $ spent on the Iraq war could help take care of the Katrina mess."

Yeah, we can pretend every dollar spent on one project would go farther if spent on a different project.

Meanwhile, the great state of Louisiana allowed many thousands of its citizens to live in danger of death by flooding for a century. The state of Lousiana and the city of New Orleans evaded their responsibilities to ensure the safety of the city. That is an example of depraved indifference to human life.

[chris]

Larry with his PantiesWedged, you wrote:

"His attitude is a large contributing reason as to why some the problems are occuring in your country."

Yeah, I get calls every day from millions of Americans asking me for my perspective on everything.

You wrote:

"Close minded narrow thinking intellectuals like Chris are going to drive the US into even deeper kaka."

Based on the tone of your preceding sentences, you are hoping for an American defeat on more than one level.

You wrote:

"Coeur d'Alene uh ? Sure buddy, Brooklyn Public Library Shared Internet."

Why do you believe I live in Brooklyn if you doubt that I'm currently in Coeur d'Alene?

I was on Sherman Avenue, downtown Coeur d'Alene earlier today.

Saturday from 5 pm to 7 pm I will attend a meeting of people who believe 9/11 was perpetrated by the US government.

The meeting will be held at Independence Point in Coeur d'Alene. I have a few questions for the organizers.

[Lulu]

Chris is busy, busy, busy, straightening out the world.

I can only imagine his annual Christmas newsletter.

[Dawn]

This is on everyone's minds, even down here in Mouseland where the ills of the world are difficult to find reported on our happy little local news programs. And like another who commented, I am so accustomed to the wacky way our president addresses us, I felt Barbara was reporting a true dialogue when I started reading her column and found myself praying that it wasn't true....funny doesn't work well with this president because he is just too unbelievable.

I touched on that in my blog and included a photo a relative had sent from the wreckage -- a Good Samaritan. The one silver lining in every crisis -- good people helping each other and caring. We can't expect those Good Sams to be our government or leadership, though. They are our neighbors. www.wordsogold.blogspot.com

[Larry In Lethbridge]

Chris, whose meds have been horribly mixed up wrote:

Yeah, I get calls every day from millions of Americans asking me for my perspective on everything.

Satire, sarcasm ? I think if anyone called you at all it would be for you to deliver a large pepperoni pizza.

Chris wrote forgetting he declared he lived in Brooklyn a few posts ago:

Why do you believe I live in Brooklyn if you doubt that I'm currently in Coeur d'Alene?

I was on Sherman Avenue, downtown Coeur d'Alene earlier today.

I guess you are one of those patients who doesn't follow doctor's orders.

Chris declares his readiness for "town hall" politickin:
Saturday from 5 pm to 7 pm I will attend a meeting of people who believe 9/11 was perpetrated by the US government.

The meeting will be held at Independence Point in Coeur d'Alene. I have a few questions for the organizers.

Wear your helmet buddy. Pompous asses like your self might get pummelled at events like this. If you show and act as obnoxious as you do here at Barb's blog, I'd certainly go out and meet you in the parking lot and take few rounds out of you.
I think they need to lock you up for your own protection.

Have fun at your meeting you kook.

[chris]

Larry of the Lost World, Iwrote:

"The meeting will be held at Independence Point in Coeur d'Alene. I have a few questions for the organizers."

I mentioned the meeting to give you a chance to determine that I might, in fact, be enjoying the balmy weather of Coeur d'
Alene at present. There's probably an internet site announcing the meeting. It involves a collection of groups in the US known by several names: Truth About 9/11; WTC 7; Physics of 9/11; Loose Change; September Eleventh; and several more.

I've run into some of their members at the annual 9/11 memorial service held at the World Trade Center site. A vile bunch.

Larry, you threatened:

"Wear your helmet buddy. Pompous asses like your self might get pummelled at events like this."

Really? In other words, you and a lot of other people are so lacking intellectually that the best you can do is threaten violence. Ooooh. Scary. Scary.

You wrote:

"If you show and act as obnoxious as you do here at Barb's blog, I'd certainly go out and meet you in the parking lot and take few rounds out of you."

Like I said, Larry, I'm here in Coeur d'
Alene, a town with many parking lots. You're welcome to drop by. I'm sure we can find a parking lot you like. However, I know you are like most people who threaten others on the internet: all talk, no action.

I had a rather fun time during the Republican Convention in New York City in 2004. About 500,000 protestors descended on NY City that week. There is a park known as Union Square in NYC. It is a commonly used site for protests.

Liberal protestors were there, ranting and raving. I had quite a good time defending capitalism and freedom against the protestors. Yes, a few protestors got pretty hot and considered playing tough guy with me. But they didn't.

You wrote:

"I think they need to lock you up for your own protection."

Your hostility is overcoming you. Like I've said, you should ignore what I write. Your ignorance does not offend me.

I'm in Coeur d'Alene till Monday. If you want to swing by, you'll have to get here over the weekend. Best place to find me is at Independence Point on Saturday night.

[Larry in Lethbridge]

Chris continues, but in a tough guy fashion:
Like I said, Larry, I'm here in Coeur d'
Alene, a town with many parking lots. You're welcome to drop by. I'm sure we can find a parking lot you like. However, I know you are like most people who threaten others on the internet: all talk, no action.

I have straightened out my share of loud mouths both in Canada and the US. I wouldn't waste airfare on a punk like you, but if ever we met, no problem. I'd expect your lawyers letter to follow up our visit shortly thereafter seeking damages/hospital costs etc..

Chris continues to advertise his wherabouts :

I'm in Coeur d'Alene till Monday. If you want to swing by, you'll have to get here over the weekend. Best place to find me is at Independence Point on Saturday night.

Hey everybody, watch for the political agitator with the large cakehole at Independence Point. Don't expect much though. Internet intellectuals who travel to "rallies" and make proclamations like Buddy does, are usually meek little weasels. This guy is no different.

Hey Chris, what is the YMCA like in Coeur D'Alene ? How was it riding on the bus ? You and the others stop at any good diners ?

[chris]

Loose Lips Larry of Hoser-ville said:

"I have straightened out my share of loud mouths both in Canada and the US."

Sure you have, Larry. But these days you get arrested for hitting two-year-olds.

And of course, he shrinks from carrying out his threats when he says:

"I wouldn't waste airfare on a punk like you, but if ever we met, no problem."

No problem? What does "no problem" mean?

You repeated your threat:

"I'd expect your lawyers letter to follow up our visit shortly thereafter seeking damages/hospital costs etc.."

Are you exploding up there in your little isolated hamlet, Larry? You seem to be seething. Don't kick the neighbor's dog to death pretending its me.

You wrote:

"Hey everybody, watch for the political agitator with the large cakehole at Independence Point. Don't expect much though. Internet intellectuals who travel to "rallies" and make proclamations like Buddy does, are usually meek little weasels. This guy is no different."

I have contacted the Spokane and Coeur d'Alene newspapers about this rally of 9/11 nuts. I think they will cover the event. Perhaps I'll be interviewed. Maybe a photo as well. I'll do what I can to add some interest to the gathering.

[buena]

Jesus. Larry and chris, why don't you two get a room?

[Larry In Lethbridge]

Chris taking on the persona of a comedian comments:
Sure you have, Larry. But these days you get arrested for hitting two-year-olds.

Ha ha ha Stop it your killing us you funny guy.Is that best you can do ?

Chris states while crossing his fingers his dream comes true writes:

I have contacted the Spokane and Coeur d'Alene newspapers about this rally of 9/11 nuts. I think they will cover the event. Perhaps I'll be interviewed. Maybe a photo as well. I'll do what I can to add some interest to the gathering.

We will all anxiously await the anticipated outcome. I'll keep CNN on .I'll surf all day Saturday and Sunday in hopes I catch a glimpse.

I for one would love to see what you look like. I'll bet you will be agitating and hiding behind someone bigger than you. Perhaps some local woman will kick the crap out of you. That might be newsworthy. As I said Buddy, wear your helmut. we will be watching for you.

Hoser uh ? , good one. Knob

[deang]

Don't forget that Reagan initiated the War on Infrastructure back in 1981.

[Chris S.]

I'm the other Chris and disagree with the first Chris entirely. The interstate highway system and all associated infrastructure are indeed the responsibility of the Federal Gov't.

[chris]

Chris S, you wrote:

"The interstate highway system and all associated infrastructure are indeed the responsibility of the Federal Gov't."

Do a little research.

[Melker63]

Check out "The Cost of War and Our Crumbling Infrastructure" on YouTube.

[buena]

go away, chris

[Joanna]

I live in Minneapolis, and drove across that bridge twice a day (at least) to go to work for the last 12 years. Many of my friends were on or under it minutes before the collapse. Someone I know managed to escape being buried in concrete in her submerged car with only bruises, by some miracle. Bodies are still being removed from the river. Now we will try to find out what the specific causes were for this particular bridge collapse, but there is absolutely no question that in Minnesota the funding for bridge inspections and repair had been choked off by a combination of local politics and national spending priorities. No doubt. Barbara has chosen to channel her outrage with satire, but around here we need to channel that outrage into concrete political action. This incident IS connected with the negelect of infrastructure that made the impact of Hurricane Katrina infinitely worse; it IS connected with th sucking of billions of dollars away from domestic priorities to a futile and heinous international fiasco in the Middle East; it IS connected to the "no new taxes" mantra of our state's Republican governor who was willing to lose billions of dollars in Federal highway and infrastructre matching funds because he vetoed a bill raising the gas tax a modest amount for the first time since the 80s. There's plenty of blame to go around. but the people who died or are still in the hospital, and htose of us whose lives are affected by this bridge failure, or the levee failures in New Orleans, deserve much better than we have gotten from those Federal and State agencies whose job it is to maintain our transportation infrastructure in safe condition. Period.

[roger]

i have no use for barbaras ridiculous, droll, transparent satire. this is the reason i have not joined the conversation up to this point. in contrast however joannas comments are on site, detailed and factual.

i now run the risk of raising the ire of many here present by suggesting that the identical goverment incompetence which has been expressed here would be duplicated many times over if the government became the single payer in a universal coverage plan for health care. the government is a blunt instrument incapable of delivering the services required for the health care needs of this country. additionally the middle class cannot afford such foolishness.

[chris]

roger writes:

"...the identical goverment incompetence which has been expressed here would be duplicated many times over if the government became the single payer in a universal coverage plan for health care."

roger is right.

[chris]

Joanna writes:

"Now we will try to find out what the specific causes were for this particular bridge collapse..."

It's already clear that the bridge collapsed because it was over-loaded with construction supplies and equipment WHILE vibration-inducing jack-hammering and the rumbling of heavy rush-hour traffic strained the structure.

Thus, the bridge was subjected to loads and conditions that exceeded its DESIGN capabilities.

It collapsed BECAUSE the state was repairing and maintaining it. Not because it was in DIRE NEED of repairs.

The inspectors will conclude that if the STATE had conducted its maintenance and repair work in a manner that accounted for the design limits and characteristics of the bridge, the bridge would have remained standing.

You wrote:

"...but there is absolutely no question that in Minnesota the funding for bridge inspections and repair had been choked off by a combination of local politics and national spending priorities."

The preceding is not a CAUSE of the bridge failure.

[buena]

Joanna, you are absolutely right and I appreciated your comments.

[Larry In Lethbridge]

Chris,

How did you make out at Independence Point on Saturday ? I didn't hear much about the 9/11 group, so your efforts to get some publicity failed I suppose.

Maybe you caught sight of a woman wearing a burka, thought something nefarious was going down, and hightailed it back to the security of the "Y".

On the bridge issue you comment, taking on the persona of a civil engineer:

" The inspectors will conclude that if the STATE had conducted its maintenance and repair work in a manner that accounted for the design limits and characteristics of the bridge, the bridge would have remained standing ".

Are you a self proclaimed expert at everything then ?
Your act is getting rather tiresome here buddy. Can't you find another blog somewhere else to blow your hot air ?

[chris]

larry you asked:

"Chris,

How did you make out at Independence Point on Saturday ? I didn't hear much about the 9/11 group, so your efforts to get some publicity failed I suppose."

The 9/11 conspirach event occurred on schedule. A small crowd gathered at the site beside Lake Coeur d'Alene. The group included a reporter from the Coeur d'Alene Press (www.cdapress.com). He stayed for over two hours, taking lots of notes and photos while interviewing participants in the often voluble debate. The debate boiled down to me against everyone else in attendance.

Sad to say, the story did not run as I expected. However, the 9/11 conspiracy group plans to meet at the same spot on September 11. Given the timing of that meeting, news coverage is likely to follow. However, on 9/11 I will be attending the services at the World Trade Center site in New York City.

You wrote:

"Maybe you caught sight of a woman wearing a burka, thought something nefarious was going down, and hightailed it back to the security of the "Y"."

You obviously know little about northern Idaho. It is one of the whitest regions in the US, and it is also almost exclusively Protestant. There are not many Catholics in the area and there are only a small number of Jews.

There are even fewer muslims than Jews, and the muslims, if there are any, don't parade around in islamic clothing. The percentage of people in that area who are former or current military is extraordinarily high. Many families have kids in Iraq and Afghanistan. Thus, a muslim wearing traditional clothing in northern Idaho would receive hard looks from many many people.

Meanwhile, two people at the event threatened me, essentially because I bluntly told them there was no government conspiracy behind 9/11 and that President Bush was not about to declare martial law.

But they were like you, Larry, all talk, no action.

I'm back in Brooklyn. Flew out of Spokane yesterday.

[Larry in Lethbridge]

Chris steps up to the lectern, clears his throat and proclaims:

" You obviously know little about northern Idaho. It is one of the whitest regions in the US, and it is also almost exclusively Protestant".
Well I certainly appreciate this info. You are certainly sounding more and more like the racist bigot I suspect you to be.

Chris now pouting heavily continues:
"Sad to say, the story did not run as I expected".

A person with your knowledge and charisma couldn't drum up just a little bit of PR to cover this all important gathering ? All that way on the bus to Coeur d'Alene to fail so miserably ? Maybe the "press" in attendance couldn't figure out who was nuttier of the two sides ?

Chris sums up his failure to get noticed by saying:

"Meanwhile, two people at the event threatened me, essentially because I bluntly told them there was no government conspiracy behind 9/11 ...

"But they were like you, Larry, all talk, no action"

Seems like you did a lot of talking and didn't get any action. You are not even small town newsworthy . How does that feel ? You probably used up all your vacation days doing so. How you going to make rent now ?

You are a complete jackass, you know that right ?

[Dawn]

Joanna, I am so sorry you are facing all of this. In Florida we're working hard to make as many stupid decisions as your state government. Recently they lowered property taxes saying we'd save so much money. Its about $100 per average household and they have a bill to vote on in January that will lower it even more -- something about raising the Homestead Exemption. Well, that's all great. I can use more money -- but I also have a job with the county. Their budget is getting slashed by millions which means cut and burn and prioritize and elminiate projects that are vital to the welfare of the population including infrastructure. My county has been good stewards and are doing well with the budget cuts, although they're to the bone already. Hiring freeze, eliminating spending, cutting out services....and this is Florida where our emergency response is vital every September when hurricanes head our way. None of this makes sense, I don't understand why our Republican governor has made these choices. Who is this benefitting? The impoverished don't pay property tax and if they do these cuts won't mean many dollars saved for them.

Dawn

[A Canadian]

Larry and Chris....this is very entertaining!

[buena]

Maybe Larry and chris could get their own blog for their ridiculous dickfests.

There are many who would actually like to discuss the issues Barbara raises.

[Larry in Lethbridge]

Buena,

Yes, this is a good idea. I kind of got carried away with Chris as I just didn't like him trampling all over people like yourself with his pompous arrogant commentary.

And when he snarked at Barbara like that, well you just don't do that. Bullies need to be chided. It is OK to take on rabble rousers and during our little exchange we found out Chris is a bit of a nutjob himself. Anything he writes in future if he bothers to rejoin in, we take with a grain of salt.

[buena]

Or, as I've been saying and others have too: just ignore him and he'll go play in someone else's yard.

[CanadaKat]

Sigh...

war on this, war on that, war on everything.

I guess we really can't expect any different approach from a military state.

very big sigh

[CanadaKat]

Roger wrote:
"i now run the risk of raising the ire of many here present by suggesting that the identical goverment incompetence which has been expressed here would be duplicated many times over if the government became the single payer in a universal coverage plan for health care. the government is a blunt instrument incapable of delivering the services required for the health care needs of this country. additionally the middle class cannot afford such foolishness."

That's true only if you believe that everyone is incapable of learning, even when there are multiple examples available to learn from.

Or did you really mean to hint that your government is that stupid?

It has nothing to do with being incapable and everything to do with being beholden to your corporate campaign donors, with a heavy dose of refusal to change thrown in.

As to the suggestion, made elsewhere on this blog, that a more socialized form of medicare won't work with large populations...say whaaat?

Prove it please.

Last time I looked, my socialized medicare costs every working person money (nothing is free). Each person pays through their taxes. More people = more taxes = everyone paying for their own medicare.

So what, exactly, is the problem with a larger population?

[CanadaKat]

oops, I said "every working person..."
Actually, even those not working-specifically those receiving social benefits (welfare, unemployment insurance)also pay, in their own way. Given that such persons need health care too, the cost of that is factored in to whatever social benefits they receive.

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