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June 19, 2007

Comments

Justin K.

At this point I think any one would be better then Bush. How ever I'm not voting for Hillary because I don't believe family members of former presidents should be new presidents. There's to much baggage.

Solo

I absolutely agree with Barbara's take on Hillary Clinton. Once upon a time I had high hopes that Bill & Hill would make a positive difference in the lives of hard working Americans of all classes.

Instead, we got another example of how power corrupts and we, as usual, paid the price.

It saddens me that after working and fighting for women's rights since the 60s, I won't be voting for her.

Hattie

This woman and her husband let us down in so many ways. Every time I feel inclined to give the Clintons a break, I will just re-read this piece.

buena

As usual, we have to vote for the lesser of two evils. If it's between Hillary and any of the republican bozos, she'll get my vote.

realpc

We are not going to have a socialist/ feminist/ pacifist /atheist president in the near future. Maybe not ever. I don't know why you expected Hillary to fit that description.

lc2

I agree with realpc!!!

I read a recent interview w/the directors of the documentary "Jesus Camp" in which they were asked what the role of the film is. They responded that it was to expose us coasters to the folks in the heartland ... as we're usually reminded every four years in an election. They noted that most people in hip liberal circles are as oblivious to the inclinations of everyday folks in DeKalb and Peoria as people in small towns are of life in the city.

Like it or not, Barbara, Hillary spans that divide quite nicely, in the same way that GW's ranch-hand act does. What, you thought the
~5o% of eligible voters were people were digging deeper than hair color/thickness, twang, and religious denomination? Think again.

Hattie

Oh yes, we hip liberal types just don't have a clue as to the nature of the "real" America. What an insult to Americans that kind of statement is.
So I don't know any snake handlers personally!
But how about that third tour of duty? The medical bills that can't be paid? Rich people taking over all the good places? Just a few of the complaints I've heard lately from some folks I know in Idaho.

Kevin Carson

We're totally screwed in the next election: Giuliani would be worse than Bush, and Hillary and McCain are both almost as bad. Obama is a self-serving opportunist whose substantive positions are limited to vague treacle about "Hope" (where have we heard THAT before?).

All this is assuming, of course, that Cheney doesn't attempt a Hail Mary by nuking Iran and having Junior declare a national emergency.

As for buena's lesser of two evils strategy, unfortunately the evil folks are fully aware of it and taking it into account. That's probably why the lesser evil seems to get more evil with every new election.

Hattie

Oh yes, we hip liberal types just don't have a clue as to the nature of the "real" America. What an insult to Americans that kind of statement is.
So I don't know any snake handlers personally!
But how about that third tour of duty? The medical bills that can't be paid? Rich people taking over all the good places? Just a few of the complaints I've heard lately from some folks I know in Idaho.

lc2

Hattie: I happen to be a coaster who prefers hip liberal circles myself. But I'm also lucky (and yes I do consider myself lucky) to have extended family that is deeply entrenched in God/Family/Country and happens to live in the South and Midwest. To deny that these are different worlds is to deny that the sky is blue, so I don't quite know what your issue is. Barbara illuminated the culture of working class folks that is ignored and denied by our media and middle-class-obsessed culture ... why deny that such ignorance about small town/Republican life is foreign to most coasters?

Yes, my life as an independent-bookstore-shopping, organic-lemonade-drinking, Green-Party-leaning person is as foreign to them as their Wal-Mart-shopping, Wednesday-night-Bible-study, American-flag-decorating-scheme-living room lives are to me.

Let's not pretend there's not an elephant in this room, shall we? As a southern boy, Bill Clinton straddled this cultural divide masterfully. For Hillary, it's a little tougher -- she doesn't have the automatic in of having been raised down South, for starters. Whether we like it or not, most elections are still popularity contests and are won or lost based on what seems most familiar, or which candidate the voter would rather have at a family reunion.


buena

Kevin, I agree with most of what you say, with the exception of the 2000 presidential "election." I don't think Al Gore was or is a bad choice; we finally had a decent candidate that year. Then came Nader, voter fraud, and Bush's appointment to the presidency by the Supreme Court. So much for democracy.

And with Dick "Strangelove" Cheney hoping to lob that hail Mary you mention, wondering who to vote for will cease to be an issue.

Hattie

lc2: where do you come up with this nonsense?
I think you're the one who needs to get around more, not me.

Michael

You are all missing the point. I fully understand the differences between southerners and mid-westerners, mainly because I've been both.

The POINT is that Hillary pretends to be whatever her latest constituency wants.

You can't GET more Socialist than Hillarys health care "plan". You also can't get more Neocon than her vote to invade Iraq or her statements about the death of Saddam Hussein. She is the epitome of what every commedian on earth deems a politician.

Let her senate voting record speak for itself. That will be plenty enough for most sanely thinking Americans on both sides of the political isle to reject this woman.

Larry

I ageee, we have had enough of the Clinton's and Bush's.

Hillary openly defended the war until 4 months before she announced her candidacy.

We have had enough of war and enough of Free Trade.

We need someone new.

Fool on the Hill

Kevin Carson has it right, spot-on, as they say. We're screwed. Hillary and Obama are both frauds, and about all we can expect from the DLC-led Dems. It's tragedy repeating itself as farce. Hillary won't be much, or any, better than Bush, as even Ted Koppel has allowed recently that she won't get us out of Iraq even if she serves 2 terms. She'll keep us quagmired there forever. It's Israel, stupid! It's not only Israel, but oh, yeah, it's Israel. She's joined at the hip with the Zionists. And no, I'm not idiotically "anti-Semitic."

barbsright

I agree that Kevin Carson got it 'spot on'. Buena did not. Her comment, on June 19, 2007, is the reason this country is in such a mess. Her comment, on June 20, 2007, that Ralph Nader had an effect on the 2000 campaign is laughable. As long as the Republicans controlled Florida with Gov. Jeb Bush, Gore would have had to get at least 3% points more of the vote to beat Bush. Nader did not come close to that amount of the vote. Florida was going to be G.W. Bushs' 'by hook or by crook'. Maybe Mayor Bloomberg will save the USA.

John F.

A couple of suggestions:

1. Perhaps we should focus on WHAT instead of WHO. That is, emphasize the 2008 platform now instead of at the convention. Make the campaign more about the platform than the face.

2. I'd suggest our best hope of getting access to power in Washington is through the House of Representatives. Focus more attention on our own Representatives on blogs, letters to the editor, etc. Call them, write them, hold them accountable.

Margot A.

"most elections are still popularity contests and are won or lost based on what seems most familiar, or which candidate the voter would rather have at a family reunion." This is SO true and the root of the problem. Is there anything we can DO about it?

Evan H.

Excellent piece.

lc2

John F,

I agree in principle, but principles are not exactly what gets people elected these days. We're not that far-removed from jr. high days and apparently it's wrong to acknowledge that here on this board.

My parents both hail from very small towns in the heartland and South (I'm talking about towns where the average house value is $32K) and I have a window into the cultures of those towns that the vast majority of people on the coasts do not have, including my spouse who grew up in a working class family here in the northeast. It's no fault of their own, any more than we should blame people for being unaware of the cultures of countries they've never visited. As far as I can tell, it might as well be a different country, much like work as a waitress/maid/Wal-Mart clerk barely resembles the work of office clerks or i.t. experts. And yes Hattie, I've done both. Recently.

.... or did I just imagine it that the majority of the Bush voters in the last election said they voted for him b'c of his shared "moral values"? To ignore the role of culture in national elections is just silly. It's an analysis of the situation, not an endorsement of it.

buena

1. What is the alternative to voting for the lesser of two evils?

2. Thomas Jefferson said "Convinced that the people are the only safe depositories of their own liberty, and that they are not safe unless enlightened to a certain degree, I have looked on our present state of liberty as a short-lived possession unless the mass of the people could be informed to a certain degree." --Thomas Jefferson to Littleton Waller Tazewell, 1805.

That explains a lot.

Wally Whiteman

I see old Hattie mixing it up again with anyone with opposing viewpoints.

Woman, your act is so lame and tired.

When are you going to say something useful and constructive rather sparring with everyone ?

I know you need more commenters over at your crappy site, but why don't you earn them like eveyone else ? All you do is seek and throw darts. Pitiful.

Oh , that comment Cascadia made about Hillary at your site, just proves how much a blowhard she really is. I am glad you corrected such a foolish comment. Considers herself expert at US political issues now.

Not as smart as she thinks she is. Fun to watch you two though. Misery loves company.

Hattie

Dear Ms. Ehrenreich: could you please nuke this annoying troll? He is ruining several forums where I comment. He lives in the Toronto area and has something wrong with him.
Last comment here from me on him.

Curly Earl

Hattie you are such a poor sport. You cruise other's sites, like this one, and stir up all sorts of controversy and when someone questions your motives, they are labelled a troll ? Uh?

You pick fights purposely. You need to be the victor, regardless of what you are saying makes any sense or not, and when you are called out, like I have here, you claim foul.Give me a break. What a juvenile mentality.

I think YOU ruin several forums by your rants and your dart throwing and self proclaimed leftist superiority. When youlook at it this way, who invited you over anyway ?

Perry

Why on earth would you think that an obviously unsympathetic bio of Hillary would provide any insight into anything about her? Bernstein's book trashes her in ways she does not deserve and you are no better when you take his text as gospel and attempt to reason from it.

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