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March 06, 2006

Comments

Frances

Thanks for this. Very simple, straightforward, and convincing!

John

Hmmm...the silence is deafening. An effective and peaceful protest is simply to curb your participation in the economy by spending less. If enough people did so, it will most certainly get attention and hasten change. This is perhaps the only vulnerability of Corporate America.

Hattie

Hmmm...the silence is deafening.
Right, John.
I don't like to think of my present affuence as unearned or immodest, but I know it is no longer available to people of the middle middle class that my husband and I came from. It is based on things like the free public education my husband got in the 50's (well,not exactly free, his tuition at Berkeley then was $28.00 a semester) and the career he was able to follow as a result of the fine start he got. We have a pleasant and comfortable life because of his ability to live and work where he pleases, thanks to telecommunication. We can comfortably afford what we want, give money to our kids, travel, etc.
I've always worked, doing the socially worthwhile stuff, teaching, volunteering, in other words the stuff that is not well paid or not paid at all.
But we're a dying breed. The largesse to the young that got us started no longer exists.

Hattie

Commenting more directly on Barbara's post:
We watch what we spend and don't shop much. Our craving for stuff is not very great. But that's because we have what we want. Air travel is our big "sin."

Katie

Barbara -- Thanks for this. I'm really looking forward to reading this book. I already have it on hold at the library. Yes, the library, where books are free, "for those that can't afford hardcover books". Just wanted to make that suggestion!

theresa

One nasty little secret that becomes more apparent each day is that the US tax revolts over the last 30 years have been more about *who* was perceived to be *getting* all the social services at the expense of the *enslaved* middle class. Desegregation and school busing were two of the main triggers for Americans to abandon support of public services -- and public spaces. Gore Vidal wrote how Prop 13 in California and Prop 2.5 in Massachusetts were just suburb-speak for "get the blacks" which, in the 21st Century, now means "get the minorities and immigrants." We don't mind paying for public libraries, schools, and parks if the only "public" who uses them resemble ourselves, but for all our talk of "equality" we are a country that is becoming both balkanized and bankrupt, where peace means a nice secure bunker lined with mirrors.

Europe until recently was pretty homogeneous, but they too now are experiencing the same sorts of tensions over their public spaces as different cultures move in. France responded by warehousing their immigrants in far Parisian suburbs, and other countries used similar ploys. In Germany, it is more of a psychological corral, where kids who are second generation Germans but of Turkish heritage are still considered foreign.

So "public generosity" is already rife with its own issues.

Hattie

JL: the main reason people are so stretched is that necessities -- and I mean real necessities, such as affordable health care, housing, and education -- are going through the roof.
Exactly. That's why we have to be so careful in our day to day consumer decisions while at the same time working for change.

Paul

If you want to save money, do not shop at Costco or Sams Club: going there for necessities like bread or milk can easily cost you a hundred dollars or more! :-)

Hattie

That's right! Self-restraint goes out the window as you browse around looking at all that cool stuff.

janinsanfran

Great discussion. I try not to consume unless I can define an real need for myself, but this is hard. My parents never got anything new until the old wore out. And stuff wore out less rapidly in their heyday.

So can I get a new dishdrainer even though the old one, though dingy, would still serve? I did, but I am still not sure about this.

Gwyn

The observation of finding public entertainment was particularly interesting to me. More and more, I think a huge aspect of American loneliness and boredom, which brings us to the mall, is a result of our "cocooning." We've given up those public places that were centers of conversation and entertainment in exchange for home entertainment centers, which we experience in isolation. Spend any time in European countries, and you see a lot more of the "joie de vivre" in the public square.

theresa

But De Tocqueville noted that Americans were never ones for public social discourse -- it's a cultural thing more than economics, I think. Cocooning is more prevalent when Americans feel forced to share, something they hate.

Restrictive covenants on deeds, restricted country clubs -- we've never been much for embracing our fellows, and this tendency, once limited to the upper classes, is just about the only thing that has trickled down to the lower...

Victoria

I'm just curious: do you guys think that spending, if not for the more bare necessities, constitues immoral behavior?

Victoria

What is so immoral with savoring some niceties of life? I'm a college student, and I work damned hard for the meager money I earn; I don't see why I should feel guilty if I want to purchase a new pair of shoes, or a nice dress. What's so wrong about treating myself to a nice meal every week? I certainly don't feel pressured by 'consumer culture'; if you go into my closet, you'll quickly see the few 'new' items I own do not consitute fashion in any way, shape or form. Am I really expected to treat these few niceties as a "sin"? Is a more 'moral' choice to give whatever extra money I have to charity? And, wouldn't my lack of spending(and others acting in a similar manner) simply lessen demand ,foster a decreasing demand for labor, thus catalyzing an increase in unemployment?

I also think that perhaps the author of this book took the notion of spending as patriotism out of context. I was younger when I heard that speech, but I believe Bush implied was that we should conduct our commercial/consumer activities as normal, as a decrease in trade sparked by fear would significantly hurt the economy, especially in the tourism and hospitality industries. He wasn't exactly suggesting: hey, go out and spend money, because wanton consumerism is the American way.

Further, nobody is necessarily chained by consumer culture: it certainly takes an effort of will to go to a shopping mall, or walk into a store on the street. If you don't want to feel inhibitedby your credit cards, cut them in half and work to pay them off; or purchase a debit card, as they will not allow you to exceed your limit(at least the programs I've come across). You do not HAVE to spend money on things that you genuinely do not want or need. I don't have to tell you about the number of credit card offers I've received in the last year(I'd say, around at least 50); of course I could have cowed to them and incurred several thousands dollars worth of debt. But I didn't, because I knew I didn't have the money, and it feels wrong to spend money that isn't actually mine. Maybe relaying the blame of consumption induced debt upon consumer culture merely shifts responsibility, so that people who are in debt because they spend money they do not have quite obviously regret their actions.

Faith

Great discussion. I just finished reading the book Blowback, by Chalmers Johnson. It became clear as I read that American consumerism is not only propping up our economy, but the economies of many Asian countries. Their growth (and the "hollowing out" of our industries) is based on a model of ever-increasing consumerism which will buy Asian-made products. This is one of the reasons that Asian banks are happy to lend our banks money, which our banks loan as credit card debt, in order to buy Asian-made products. The U.S. looks favorably upon this arrangement because, the government is worried that if Asian countries are not kept happy, they might fall prey to 'communist' leaders (read populist leaders) who would recall the bank debt and also perhaps not allow our military bases to remain in their countries. What I am saying is that our consumerism props up American economic imperialism. This is why, as one person noted, things don't last as long as they used to. Manufacturers like this because you will buy more when stuff wears out. We as ordinary citizens play our part in this scheme when we judge others for not wearing the 'right' fashion or having the 'right' car. I am not positing any answers here
-- I am not a huge consumer, but I buy my fair share of airline tickets, computers (I usually wait until the old one dies, except I did buy a flat screen recently since I am a professional photographer and the images really do show up as more sharp on it) and clothes (usually made in Asian countries.) I think it's important to recognize that every purchase I make is really a contribution to the American economic imperialist project, and then see if I still 'need' it when I'm at the cashier's. I try to buy American, Italian, Turkish, German, and other products not made in low-wage countries.

Laure Miller

I have needs. I have to have a house to live in - so I bought one. I could have gotten a mini-estate *gag* but preferred a small house in a predominantly African-American neighborhood (although I am white, if that matters, which it doesn't to me) because I knew prices there were lower.

I need food, so I buy that - a lot of it, with teenagers in the house. We also have a small garden.

Gotta pay utilities, but there are ways to cut those. Candles are SO romantic! Heat can come from cuddling in bed with a sweetie, and what heat you have can be kept inside by your standard weather-stripping, etc. We use water-saver showerheads and turn on the AC only when our eyeballs are sweating.

I do love shiny new things, but my last computer was 8 years old before it gave up the ghost, and this computer was built from a barebones kit. I would rather feel clever than broke.

Clothing? I am the Queen of Goodwill, Dorcas House (benfits Union Rescue Mission for the homeless), Savers (benefits ARC), and Salvation Army. Some of the things I have found there were just unbelieveable. Often - before school uniforms came into vogue hereabouts - I could get 4 kids all their school clothes for under 100$.

Our vehicle, which my husband and I share, is a 1971 Ford truck. Not the greratest in terms of fuel economy, but we only live 7 miles from our jobs. Our next car will be a Mercedes SmartCar, should the US ever allow such a good idea.

Heather

I just listened to your interview. Which brought home to me some facts one we have less to live on per year than you saved and have to turn every dollar over twice before we decide what necessity we can manage to go without. Because of this most of the things you went without we cannot afford anyway. I am the sort of person who lists all the money I spend in a year and come to the conclusion that the only way I could save any money at all was to give up my volunteer work for which I have to pay transport and related costs my biggest exspense that I could trim. Also not buy any stamps (I would love to buy more) or seed and potting mix for my garden.
I suppose what you give up is really only relevant to what you have in the first place.

Heather

Well there we go I got carried away by Judith Levine's interview. I made a point of listening to it because I thought it might have something interesting that could help me. Thank goodness I cannot afford to buy it I would have been disapointed. I always say you learn something from almost everything new each day. What did I learn from this? That there must be a lot of people out there with a lot of money that don't know how to spend it wisely and now if they buy the book they will make Judith richer and if they follow the advice she gives they will become richer as well. Same old market principal create a demand and then supply it.

Bennett Levine

Never paid more than a quarter at the Met?! What a fucking deadbeat. Judith should be ashamed of herself! I bet she doesn't tip in restaurants either, poor thing. (I wanted to write to her directly but couldn't find her web page or email.)

Costkiller

interesting post !

Debt Rescue

If you want to earn a better living proper focus on income generation is important to minimize over spending and mismanagement .

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